Useful, now I know what to look for. Tnx
Some posts rot, some don't
- Thread starter BeezFun
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Useful, now I know what to look for. Tnx
beppington
Elite Member
OK, thank you Eddie :thumbsup:
sandman2234
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Motorseven posted the same thing I was thinking. My Dad's farm had a "cedar break" across it, and he cut cedar and split them for posts. The yellow part of the cedar doesn't last long, but if you get enough of the red heart, it will last for years and years and well, we are still waiting on the results from that fencing...
David from jax
Short Game
Veteran Member
My only experience is with western red cedar. I have worked in a shingle mill, sold shake boards to shake mills, and have made my own fence posts. For good posts from our cedar here, you don't want the center part of the heart with large growth rings. You don't want the sapwood. You want the thin grained wood between the two from big old growth trees. Wood from OG trees that have lain on top of the ground for years seems pretty good. My neighbor dug one out of wet mud and made posts that didn't last at all. I have been told that it is good to char the part that goes into the ground. I have read that it is better to put them in the ground upside down from the way they grew.
F250DSLPWR
Silver Member
On our ranch there are some cedar (Ashe Juniper) fence posts that are still standing strong for over 60yrs and the ones I have pulled up (not easy I might add) have had very little rot on the bottom of them. I read somewhere that the male trees make the best posts and don't rot. I am not sure about that but, it is true that you also want posts with the most heart wood. Also, if using cedar, remove the bark so the post can dry out. For pressure treated posts put an inch or so of gravel in the bottom of the hole for the post to sit on. This lets any moisture drain away from the bottom end of the post. Also pack the surface dirt around the post so that water will drain away from the post. TSC makes some black post paint that you may want to dip and paint the bottom part of the posts.
mx842
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Most post will rot right at, or just below the ground line. Once it starts it wont take long before the whole post that is below ground will rot away. I wont say that water is not the problem but it is more a problem of the post being wet one day and dry the next. This constant change is what will cause the post to over time go away.
You can put a piece of wood, treated or not in water and as long as it stays under the water it will stay that way for years. Take that same piece of wood out of the water and let it dry out and it won't take long for it to soften and then the bugs will do the rest. I know of pilings that have been in the water for at least 80 years and they are as solid as the day they pumped them into the sand.
It is impossible to keep a post dry in the ground unless you are in a desert. The water table rises and lowers each year around here. Right now surface water is really close to the top of the ground. I dug 6 post holes last week and before I finished digging they were all full to the top with water. The pole barn guys told me to throw a solid block in the bottom of the hole then put the post in and true it up and pour the concrete right into the water and there would never be a problem. I on the other hand just couldn't bring myself to do that so I mixed up my concrete and then dipped the water out and cleaned out the bottom then put in the concrete in and brought it up to within a foot from the ground level. After it set up I drilled holes in the concrete and attached my post to the fixtures I made in my shop. When I pour my floor I will fill in around the post and not worry about it any more.
You can put a piece of wood, treated or not in water and as long as it stays under the water it will stay that way for years. Take that same piece of wood out of the water and let it dry out and it won't take long for it to soften and then the bugs will do the rest. I know of pilings that have been in the water for at least 80 years and they are as solid as the day they pumped them into the sand.
It is impossible to keep a post dry in the ground unless you are in a desert. The water table rises and lowers each year around here. Right now surface water is really close to the top of the ground. I dug 6 post holes last week and before I finished digging they were all full to the top with water. The pole barn guys told me to throw a solid block in the bottom of the hole then put the post in and true it up and pour the concrete right into the water and there would never be a problem. I on the other hand just couldn't bring myself to do that so I mixed up my concrete and then dipped the water out and cleaned out the bottom then put in the concrete in and brought it up to within a foot from the ground level. After it set up I drilled holes in the concrete and attached my post to the fixtures I made in my shop. When I pour my floor I will fill in around the post and not worry about it any more.
Short Game
Veteran Member
The combination of water and air seems to be the killer. Pilings rot at the water line or between the tide lines. Fence posts rot at the surface of the ground. Logs last almost forever under cold water where air is kept away.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Just to add to the gravel at the bottom of a post theory. From what I understand, the gravel is to act as a storage area for water that gets down there, and then drains into the ground while allowing the end grain of the post to remain dry, or dry out faster then if the gravel wasn't there.
My thoughts are that the gravel will quickly silt up and actually become a place that holds water. From what I've seen removing fence posts, I don't know if it matters either way.
I have never found the end of a post to be rotten. In fact, they are always in perfect condition, or very close to it. I've removed posts from farms that where built in the 40's or a bit earlier and found this to be true.
I read an article about a study done at a landfill in Southern California by one of the Universities there. What they found is that once burried to a certain depth, nothing happens to what is burried. They found newspapers from the 70's that you could still read the print on them when they dug into the ground.
If I understand rot, it takes more then just water to happen. It has to have the right temps and exposure to happen. Like already mentioned, a pine log in the water for a hundred years is in near perfect condition, but leave it laying on the ground for a year and it's rotted through and worthless.
Keep the water away for the base of the post, and it will last. Let water sit there and it will rot on you. It doesn't matter what you use, if it's wood, it will rot.
Eddie
My thoughts are that the gravel will quickly silt up and actually become a place that holds water. From what I've seen removing fence posts, I don't know if it matters either way.
I have never found the end of a post to be rotten. In fact, they are always in perfect condition, or very close to it. I've removed posts from farms that where built in the 40's or a bit earlier and found this to be true.
I read an article about a study done at a landfill in Southern California by one of the Universities there. What they found is that once burried to a certain depth, nothing happens to what is burried. They found newspapers from the 70's that you could still read the print on them when they dug into the ground.
If I understand rot, it takes more then just water to happen. It has to have the right temps and exposure to happen. Like already mentioned, a pine log in the water for a hundred years is in near perfect condition, but leave it laying on the ground for a year and it's rotted through and worthless.
Keep the water away for the base of the post, and it will last. Let water sit there and it will rot on you. It doesn't matter what you use, if it's wood, it will rot.
Eddie
KYErik
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The region of the post at ground level has the combination of oxygen and moisture that fungi love (fungi are the cause of rot).
Conditions necessary for decay of wood
Conditions necessary for decay of wood
Short Game
Veteran Member
In a few minutes, I'm going outside to inject logs with plugs of sawdust filled with the fungus: Lentinula edodes (Shiitake mushroom). When I've done that, I will lay them on the ground to keep them wet. I love that kind of rot.
