Speaking of septic systems

BobReeves · Jan 18, 2005

Have a sink and toilet in my shop with it's own septic something. I didn't say system because the previous owner put it in without getting a permit and I have no idea what it consists of. He said it was a tank/leach field but couldn't remember where the tank was located. Am planning on renting a trackhoe this spring and doing some discovery digging but in the mean time wondering if those with experience might be able to give me some insight on what may be going on.

Anytime we get a hard rain the system plugs up and 3 or 4 days have to pass before it will flush again. I can conclude that something is filling up with ground water and not allowing the toilet to flush. What I would like to know is what kind of poor design would exhibit this problem so I may get some idea of what will need to be done to fix it.

Thanks

Durbob · Jan 18, 2005

( Have a sink and toilet in my shop with it's own septic something. I didn't say system because the previous owner put it in without getting a permit and I have no idea what it consists of. He said it was a tank/leach field but couldn't remember where the tank was located. Am planning on renting a trackhoe this spring and doing some discovery digging but in the mean time wondering if those with experience might be able to give me some insight on what may be going on.

Anytime we get a hard rain the system plugs up and 3 or 4 days have to pass before it will flush again. I can conclude that something is filling up with ground water and not allowing the toilet to flush. What I would like to know is what kind of poor design would exhibit this problem so I may get some idea of what will need to be done to fix it.

Thanks )

Don't be surprised if it is a home made type like a 55 gallon drum or something.

CTyler · Jan 18, 2005

Digging around with a track hoe sounds pretty agressive. Unless you know about where its at you'll have a big mess.

You might want to make a probe out of rebar. Weld a T handle onto it. Poke around until you find it, preferably a day after a rain when the ground is soft.

SCB · Jan 18, 2005

I would go rent an inexpensive pipe locator. you can fish a peice of wire down your drain and the pipe locator will pick it up. Then you will be in the right area when you start to dig. Did this with my septic and when I dug my first hole, I was right on the money with the location. Much easier that test digging IMO.

BobReeves · Jan 18, 2005

Thanks for the info so far. Reason for the trackhoe is two fold, the west side of the shop has dirt piled up above the bottom of the siding, when it rains water runs in above the slab. I need to dig this out so the water has some place else to go.

Knowing I will need to do something with the septic system to solve the rain problem thought while I had the trackhoe I would try to fix the septic problem. What I don't know is what possible situations would cause the system to quit draining when it rains.

Considering several Mickey Mouse items I have uncovered on this property it is no telling what the septic system is, the 55 gal drum wouldn't surprise me at all.

Affordable · Jan 18, 2005

Bob,the reason the septic does not work in the rain is the leach field is not installed correctly and not enough leach field lines,the tank can be as smalll as a 250 gallon tank but you should have a minimun of 150'- drain field.Hope this helps you, I'm a Master plumber in Texas.I also sell tractors

Tommy web page

ByronBob · Jan 19, 2005

Are you going to have a tank and leach lines ready to go when you rent this thing in the worst case scenario? I'd expect the worst and go from there. Running something down the pipe sounds like a good idea vs going at this blind and the probe idea sounds better.

BobReeves · Jan 19, 2005

Thanks Tommy, that gives me an idea of what can cause the problem which is what I was hoping for.

It wouldn't surprise me if the leach field was only one 20 foot piece of pipe. Problem is where the shop is located I may not be able to put in a longer field without tearing up my asphalt drive or going over the property line. Previous owner still owns the property next door, should be able to shame him into giving me an easement /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Apreciate everyones input, may end up just living with it and going to the house when it's wet.

Bob

Moon · Jan 19, 2005

( Apreciate everyones input, may end up just living with it and going to the house when it's wet.

)
Hate to say it, but this sounds like the best thing to do. I've seen 55 gallon drums used with a very short pipe and thats it. I guess it worked for what they needed (it was a camper only used during the summer on weekends). I'm afraid thats what you'll run into, and to do it right sounds like it would be a major operation and very costly to boot. They do make septics that don't need a leach field ....but again, a costly alternative, and I'm not sure of what environment those can be used in.

Moon of Ohio

Currmudgeon · Jan 19, 2005

You really want to find that tank and drain field.

What's the groundwater situation in the vicinity of the drain field? Digging a test hole down to drainfield elevation wiill give you a good idea what;'s going on in the drain tiles.

If the ground loads up with surface water, it ain't gonna work, no matter how much pipe you put in. You may need to do some surface or even subsurface drainage to get the water out of your tile field.

JJT · Jan 19, 2005

Google Infiltrator and read up on it. It's made for short runs, (typically 1/3 to 1/2 of a normal leach field). Sounds like it may be just the thing for your limited space.

LBrown59 · Jan 19, 2005

( Have a sink and toilet in my shop with it's own septic something. I didn't say system because the previous owner put it in without getting a permit and I have no idea what it consists of. He said it was a tank/leach field but couldn't remember where the tank was located. Am planning on renting a trackhoe this spring and doing some discovery digging but in the mean time wondering if those with experience might be able to give me some insight on what may be going on.

Anytime we get a hard rain the system plugs up and 3 or 4 days have to pass before it will flush again. I can conclude that something is filling up with ground water and not allowing the toilet to flush. What I would like to know is what kind of poor design would exhibit this problem so I may get some idea of what will need to be done to fix it.

Thanks )=======
Do you know where the septic tank is for the house?
Why not simply run a line from the garage to the line going from the house to that tank.

That's what i did here.

frank_f15 · Jan 19, 2005

As AFFORDABLE said , no properly designed and installed septic system sholud malfunction in rainny weather. would not be suprised if you find nothing but a small tank with an outlet pipe.

mikim · Jan 20, 2005

hiya frank -
I know in Buffalo you don't get the rains like we do here in Houston. There are places (like this gulf basin) that have serious drainage issues and when we get those tropical rains, it's quite possible to have standing water in the yard for a week after. I'm 22 miles from the coast and my elevation is 14 feet above sea level..... not a lot of fall for drainage anywhere in the area. FLAT. Consequently - even a properly installed septic can back up because of saturation. New tech now has some better solutions - but systems that were put in before ....... Our tropical rains here could be compared to your lake effect snow --- unusual for anyplace else to say the least. I've seen rainfall rates 3 - 4 inches ...... per hour so depending on the lands contours .... if it's low - there could be issues requiring unusual solutions that didn't exist when put in.....however in this case - I got a hunch the previous owner cheaped out and didn't "do it right the first time" ... I've been dealing with that mindset from my previous owner in my house in town ... a real PITA - ... Bob -- good luck with it - sounds like you'll need to do a total redo -- this time the right way -

LBrown59 · Jan 20, 2005

( hiya frank -
I know in Buffalo you don't get the rains like we do here in Houston. There are places (like this gulf basin) that have serious drainage issues and when we get those tropical rains, it's quite possible to have standing water in the yard for a week after. I'm 22 miles from the coast and my elevation is 14 feet above sea level..... not a lot of fall for drainage anywhere in the area. FLAT. Consequently - even a properly installed septic can back up because of saturation. New tech now has some better solutions - but systems that were put in before ....... Our tropical rains here could be compared to your lake effect snow --- unusual for anyplace else to say the least. I've seen rainfall rates 3 - 4 inches ...... per hour so depending on the lands contours .... if it's low - there could be issues requiring unusual solutions that didn't exist when put in.....however in this case - I got a hunch the previous owner cheaped out and didn't "do it right the first time" ... I've been dealing with that mindset from my previous owner in my house in town ... a real PITA - ... Bob -- good luck with it - sounds like you'll need to do a total redo -- this time the right way - )
===============
If the house works ok there can't be A problem with the tank or the field.

If things are working in the house the problem is the line going out of the garage.

LBrown59 · Jan 20, 2005

( Have a sink and toilet in my shop with it's own septic something. I didn't say system because the previous owner put it in without getting a permit and I have no idea what it consists of. He said it was a tank/leach field but couldn't remember where the tank was located. Am planning on renting a trackhoe this spring and doing some discovery digging but in the mean time wondering if those with experience might be able to give me some insight on what may be going on.

Anytime we get a hard rain the system plugs up and 3 or 4 days have to pass before it will flush again. I can conclude that something is filling up with ground water and not allowing the toilet to flush. What I would like to know is what kind of poor design would exhibit this problem so I may get some idea of what will need to be done to fix it.

Thanks )
=============
Areyou having the same problem with the house?
If not then the problem isn't with the tank or leach bed.
The problem is with the drain from the garage.
Fix it by running th drain line to the house drain line.

LBrown59 · Jan 20, 2005

( hiya frank -
I know in Buffalo you don't get the rains like we do here in Houston. There are places (like this gulf basin) that have serious drainage issues and when we get those tropical rains, it's quite possible to have standing water in the yard for a week after. I'm 22 miles from the coast and my elevation is 14 feet above sea level..... not a lot of fall for drainage anywhere in the area. FLAT. Consequently - even a properly installed septic can back up because of saturation. New tech now has some better solutions - but systems that were put in before ....... Our tropical rains here could be compared to your lake effect snow --- unusual for anyplace else to say the least. I've seen rainfall rates 3 - 4 inches ...... per hour so depending on the lands contours .... if it's low - there could be issues requiring unusual solutions that didn't exist when put in.....however in this case - I got a hunch the previous owner cheaped out and didn't "do it right the first time" ... I've been dealing with that mindset from my previous owner in my house in town ... a real PITA - ... Bob -- good luck with it - sounds like you'll need to do a total redo -- this time the right way - )
................ .. ....

( hiya frank -
1* even a properly installed septic can back up because of saturation.
2*I got a hunch the previous owner cheaped out and didn't "do it right the first time" ...
3*- sounds like you'll need to do a total redo -- this time the right way - )
===========
1*Don't think that's his problem cause if it was he'd be having the same issue with the house.
2*If he didn't do it right why is the house working OK?
I think he may have over spent and screwed up the garage drain.
2*Don't believe a redo is necessary just a correction on the garage drain.

BobReeves · Jan 21, 2005

Wow need to check in more often.

The house system works great and was done right. A permit was purchased, installed by a contractor and I know where everything is. The shop on the other hand has a separate system done without a permit by an idiot. It's about 600 feet from the shop to the house so tying into the house system is kinda out.

Ground water is a problem, if we get a good rain it takes 3 or 4 days for the standing water in the yard to go away. A sure sign the water table is pretty high is the crawdad mounds that keep sprouting up in places around the property. The church next door (just built last year) has a system that sprays the septic run-off over the top of the ground. I like that but can't justify the cost for my silly little shop. Anyone have any ideas on how to do this cheaply?

Junkman · Jan 21, 2005

( ............... Anyone have any ideas on how to do this cheaply? )

Make a donation to the church and tie into their system??? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BobReeves · Feb 5, 2005

Ran into the previous owner this morning at an auction and picked his brain a bit. Said he did put in a 250 gal concrete tank but only ran about 40 feet of leach line. This explains the problem with it not working when it rains. Also said he wouldn't have a problem with me extending the leach field onto his property.

The plan now is to wait until it warms up and put in 150 feet or so of additional leach line. From reading the other septic topics on this forum am pretty sure I can do the additional leach lines without any trouble.

Thanks for all the help.