Specialty Tractor

[presnewt]

I'll give the example of my mother in-law's Toyota minivan. A bunch of dashboard lights came on, and it started running rough. She took it to her family's much trusted mechanic. He could not figure out what was wrong with it. Diagnostic machine could not figure it out. He said "It's either the engine, the transmission, or both. I can't narrow it down enough to help you. You better take it to the dealer."

The Toyota dealer ran diagnostics on it, and they told her the same thing. "It's either the engine or the transmission or both. We can't figure it out without starting to replace everything, one thing at a time. That could get expensive. A new engine is $5K. A new transmission is $4K. The van is only worth $10K. You'd be better off getting a different vehicle."

So yes, you can spend time and money and eventually repair everything. But at a point, it's not worth the time or money or aggravation of having it fail again and again and nobody can seem to determine why.

I'd think after hearing the OP's reasoning for wanting a different machine, most people would agree with him. Get a different machine.

Thanks, your example is kinda exactly where I am. It becomes a money issue but also a stress issue.

 

[rScotty]

Not being pissy, just don't understand your comment. If the dealership cannot fix it and I cannot fix it, then for all intents and purposes it is unfixable. They are the ones trained, they are the ones I have already paid for the repair work. At some point, it is time to move on from a machine that does not work. If this was a car and the certified mechanics could not keep it running then I would be a fool to keep driving that car in hopes it will all of sudden get better. I have been trying to fix this model for five years. I have done a lot of the work myself (I am an accountant, not a mechanic) but things like hydraulic or engine problems are above my paygrade. If the experts can't fix it, then it is time to move on.

I don't think we are that far apart, and I don't disagree. What I am saying is to step back and take a look at the whole situation.
Mechanical things are wonderful and not very complicated. But they all have in common that they need mechanical attention to keep giving good service. Either we do it ourselves or find someone who can.

Lucky for you and I, these are logical devices. So if we don't want to do it, it isn't very difficult to find someone who can. Unfortunately, your Steiner dealer wasn't capable. I don't know why.

Listen to me, I'm an old mechanic myself. So are several others here on TBN. Read between the lines on both on my posts and on MossRoad's. We both like Steiner and Ventrac and think they are simple wonderful machines. We know that they are made by assembling commercial parts and designed to be owned by guys who like devices designed in that manner because it makes them able to be fixed by us mechanically inclined owners. They are simple to diagnose and to fix. More than that, most owners own them have them because they are FUN to diagnose and fix. Sort of like touring the country on an old British motorcycle or vintage chevy van/VW van. You EXPECT to need wrenches now and again.....

Your dealer and his mechanics don't feel that way. They are stumped. I'm afraid that all the training in the world is not going to change what is wrong with that shop. But there are others......

So when you change to a different make of tractor, keep in mind that the ability of the shop to service it is important to you. I hear you that you do not want to do the work yourself. What I am saying is since that is the case, you owe it to yourself to be able to evaluate the next model you look at in terms of the dealer AND his ability to provide service.
It's mechanical; you have to have both.

And especially so when you start looking as some of the European models. Go slow there. Frankly they are better in many ways - in every way in fact - than the US made slope-capable models. But they are way more complicated mechanically.
Luck,
rScotty

 

[presnewt]

I don't think we are that far apart, and I don't disagree. What I am saying is to step back and take a look at the whole situation.
Mechanical things are wonderful and not very complicated. But they all have in common that they need mechanical attention to keep giving good service. Either we do it ourselves or find someone who can.

Lucky for you and I, these are logical devices. So if we don't want to do it, it isn't very difficult to find someone who can. Unfortunately, your Steiner dealer wasn't capable. I don't know why.

Listen to me, I'm an old mechanic myself. So are several others here on TBN. Read between the lines on both on my posts and on MossRoad's. We both like Steiner and Ventrac and think they are simple wonderful machines. We know that they are made by assembling commercial parts and designed to be owned by guys who like devices designed in that manner because it makes them able to be fixed by us mechanically inclined owners. They are simple to diagnose and to fix. More than that, most owners own them have them because they are FUN to diagnose and fix. Sort of like touring the country on an old British motorcycle or vintage chevy van/VW van. You EXPECT to need wrenches now and again.....

Your dealer and his mechanics don't feel that way. They are stumped. I'm afraid that all the training in the world is not going to change what is wrong with that shop. But there are others......

So when you change to a different make of tractor, keep in mind that the ability of the shop to service it is important to you. I hear you that you do not want to do the work yourself. What I am saying is since that is the case, you owe it to yourself to be able to evaluate the next model you look at in terms of the dealer AND his ability to provide service.
It's mechanical; you have to have both.

And especially so when you start looking as some of the European models. Go slow there. Frankly they are better in many ways - in every way in fact - than the US made slope-capable models. But they are way more complicated mechanically.
Luck,
rScotty

I agree 100% on the importance of a good dealer and a good service department. It is probably as important or more important than the machine itself. To have a dependable, trustworthy machine you need two things...a competent machine and a competent service department to keep said machine working. I have neither of those. As much as I like the European slope mowing tractors, I am leery of them because of the lack of service dealers. My options as I see them are to get rid of the Steiner and go with Ventrac, or get rid of Steiner and go with traditional tractor.

 

[Rustyiron]

It has been in the shop since labor day of 2021. In 2020 it was in the shop for almost three months. The curreny problems (hydraulic) have taken the dealer four tries to fix and it is still not fixed. In 2020 it took them three tries to fix it. Before that, I had lift problems and I also have had bolts on some of the engine parts shear off causing it to completely tear up radiator and all kinds of other stuff. I do not use the machine commercially so it is not worked very hard and does not have an overabundance of hours on it. It is a model 440 which I have been told by dealer after dealer was a disaster of a tractor. The majority of the work is I do is mowing during the spring and summer. It has never made it more than two or three months before breaking down. There has been plenty of diagnosis done on it by the dealership over the last three years. It has not helped. I have finally gotten Steiner corporate to step in and try to help but you can only waste so much time and money on a piece of equipment that will not run.

I understand. I took can't keep it running as possibly a simple fuel problem with just the engine not running.
I'm under the impression (that others have mentioned), that is both Steiner and ven track are made up of mostly "off the shelf" components and should be very reasonable to diagnose and repair for a mechanic. I'm curious about the "worst model" comments coming from the dealer. I could see this as an excuse or way out for the lack of a real mechanic in your situation. I'd persu the manufacturers solution or at least find another dealer or mechanic.
I'm guessing that you don't have much faith in their "mechanics" since you've reached out to corporate. I don't like hammering a dealer that I don't know, but I can easily see that they might only be glorified "set up" guys and not an experienced mechanic.

 

[ArlyA]

Seem he's had more grief with the tractor than just a "simple fuel problem"..

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I see guys on here get rid of their tractor for no good reason at all, this guy has a good reason...

Dump the terd and buy something you are happy with!

SR

 

[stevem5215]

Sorry, but the 440 is not worth the hassle. Everyone steers away from them. You should just give corporate Steiner one more chance. When they say it's fixed, trade it in while working on something else. Maybe a Ventrac maybe a new Steiner. You know what you need. If it's a slope mower doing commercial work then get one of those. It's time to move on.

 

[Rustyiron]

Seem he's had more grief with the tractor than just a "simple fuel problem"..

Obviously, his initial "won't keep running" led me to this initial thought. "...yet!"

 

[ArlyA]

I agree 100% on the importance of a good dealer and a good service department. It is probably as important or more important than the machine itself. To have a dependable, trustworthy machine you need two things...a competent machine and a competent service department to keep said machine working. I have neither of those. As much as I like the European slope mowing tractors, I am leery of them because of the lack of service dealers. My options as I see them are to get rid of the Steiner and go with Ventrac, or get rid of Steiner and go with traditional tractor.

Let us know how this all works out.

 

[presnewt]

Let us know how this all works out.

I will. I am trying to consider as many options as possible. They include getting a similar machine (another Steiner or a Ventrac), getting a traditional tractor (probably will not get to all the areas on my property I need to cut), and getting something like the Italian specialty tractors which are great on hills. Each has its pros and cons. I am looking at prices of all options.

 

[CADplans]

I had two dealers tell me where I mow was too steep for a zero turn,,
then one day I ran into this Gravely 24G,, at a yard sale.

It was used, needed a little work, after I went through it, it mowed everything I wanted mowed for over a decade.

My dream was a Steiner/Ventrac,, but, the price kept me away from them.
The 24G Gravely is perfect on steep slopes, 24HP, 72" mower.
The mower weighs about 800 pounds, and really anchors the tractor to the ground on slopes.

I thought it was the best machine, other than a Steiner.

THEN, I happened to see a JD 4105 at a dealer, they did not want to sell it because "it needed MAJOR repairs".

I begged them, and they finally sold it to me.
They believed the hydrostatic drive unit was shot, the tractor went WAY faster in reverse, than forward.

I decided I could live with it,, the tractor seemed strong otherwise.
The tractor had only been used for 3 years, then sat a 4th year at the dealer.
(The tractor had been used daily for 3 years to clean out a dairy milking barn.)

When I got the tractor, there was still manure packed up underneath.

One day, I was greasing it, and noticed the hydro linkage seemed out of adjustment.
The manure had caused the hole that held a pin to elongate. pushing on the pedal did not move the hydro lever as far as it was supposed to.

There was a threaded adjustment to allow for the slop,, I adjusted it.
The tractor instantly had forward speed that equaled the reverse speed. All was perfect.

The owner traded in the tractor because they thought the hydro unit was shot.
The dealer did not try to fix it, because they did not think they had a mechanic that could fix it.

I fixed it,, in 15 minutes,, with two wrenches, a pair of pliers, and a new cotter pin.

Don't give up hope on the Steiner,, it may be something simple.

My 4105 is such a perfect mower, I have completely given up dreaming about a Ventrac.
It sticks to hillsides like glue.

 

[Vineroper]

Presnewt,
We have a lot of steep ground to mow here in the Red River Valley in North Texas, and I did some exhaustive googling on slope mowing options. We ultimately decided to purchase an Altoz tracked zero turn mower. I believe it is the only tracked zero turn on the market. They are expensive, but so far we have loved it. We bought both the all terrain deck (which is heavy duty and uses hinged blades like a brush hog) and the finish mowing deck. We have been able to mow some very steep and very wet stuff that we had to weedeat in the past, so it is saving us a lot of time/labor. And of course like any zero turn it is fast as hell. Altoz makes a utility plow and spreader for the machine which they advertise for moving snow, but we don't need those. We already had two Kubota Narrow PowerKrawler tractors for use in our vineyards, and a gearmore flail mower that we can pull behind them, which is painfully slow compared to a zero turn. We also pull a 14 foot landpride batwing shredder behind the Kubotas for the larger pastures. Some ranch owners around us are starting to use the larger zero turns -- particularly the diesel Kubotas and Scags -- as an alternative to a bat wing (but of course those aren't really usable on steep slopes). We have a 10 mile mountain bike trail that we need to mow also, so for that we would like something real narrow and tough that can be lowered to the ground, so we are considering a Canycom brush cutter, which has only one US dealer -- in the Northwest. These are 4 wheel drive brush cutting slope mowers that are pretty impressive despite their name and their looks, and powered by a Honda motor so you know they're reliable. Here's a video:

. So the Altoz and the Canycom are two options that you might not have come across, but which you might should consider depending upon your slope steepness and acreage and if you don't need to use traditional tractor implements on your property. Hope this is of some use to you.

 

[TooCents]

Glad to hear the mower is working out for you. I still like the versatility of 3pt attachments on the hydrostatic Antonio Carraro 4400. This is the only picture I could find on steep grades but I am confident that this AC machine will slide before it tips and with a balanced design, all I have to do is apply a wee bit of "lift" to the mower and & I have an incredible connection to the slope.

 

[Williy]

Perhaps its a simple fix and they don't
want to do the fix so they can sell you
a new one???

willy

 

[harrydarwen]

Turning radius like no other and a very low profile. Factory quality control is second to none. Prices seem reasonable.

Showbox jiofi.local.html tplinklogin​

 

[woolyAcres]

Glad to hear the mower is working out for you. I still like the versatility of 3pt attachments on the hydrostatic Antonio Carraro 4400. This is the only picture I could find on steep grades but I am confident that this AC machine will slide before it tips and with a balanced design, all I have to do is apply a wee bit of "lift" to the mower and & I have an incredible connection to the slope.

I've got an older version (same model) of what TooCents has. I bought it used 4 years ago. I've had no trouble at all with it in the 300+ hours I've put on it. Incredible machine! And it's reversible so 3PT can be in front (as in his pic) or behind like a traditional tractor. I use it both ways depending on the application. Only down side is a loader is not an option.

I've slid my down steep (but very short) hillsides usually in wet conditions where the turf tears free under the tires. Unnerving but I've never thought it was close to rolling. Including sliding off icy road into 4' deep ditch. The 'passanger' side wheels slid off the road and the machine got hung up because the belly came to rest on the shoulder. When trying to get it unstuck it was clear it wasn't anywhere close to tipping. It would have just continued to slide 'upright' to the bottom of the ditch.

 

[hornett22]

Not being pissy, just don't understand your comment. If the dealership cannot fix it and I cannot fix it, then for all intents and purposes it is unfixable. They are the ones trained, they are the ones I have already paid for the repair work. At some point, it is time to move on from a machine that does not work. If this was a car and the certified mechanics could not keep it running then I would be a fool to keep driving that car in hopes it will all of sudden get better. I have been trying to fix this model for five years. I have done a lot of the work myself (I am an accountant, not a mechanic) but things like hydraulic or engine problems are above my paygrade. If the experts can't fix it, then it is time to move on.

Just because it's the dealer, that doesn't mean they're competent. See it all the time in both tractor and automotive .