Specs Say 900lb max, is 1140 too much?

[MikePA]

Welcome to TBN, James! Assuming you haven't been lurking around here for a while, it might take some time reading through posts in the various forums to form opinions about the various posters and the relative value of their posts. There is a wealth of experience here on TBN, from people who use large ag tractors to those with compact tractors. There's a wide variety of soil conditions represented as well. An attachment that works fine for one person, in their environment, might not work at all for someone else. As an example, my ground is a rich, brown soil while less than a half mile down the road there's an abundance of red clay. So even people from the same geographic area can have different experiences.

While there are a few topics that the words 'always' and 'never' can be used, typically those areas involving safety, most topics fall into the gray area where information from the manual is blended with experience. It's in these arenas where the reader will have to evaulate the wisdom of the poster based upon the totality of their posts. People like Bird, John Miller III, cowboydoc, Harv, Glueguy, kubmech, (I just know I will leave someone out /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif) stand the test of time. In most, if not all, cases they are speaking from experience and they also know what's in the manual. If something will work, they will tell you. If it's borderline, they will tell you. If it's not going to work, they will tell you that as well. All based upon their experience and knowledge. All this in a manner that is non-confrontational, a practice that, while not unique to TBN, is certainly atypical of many places on the Internet.

From reading their posts for almost a year, I can attest to the fact that their only desire is to assist others in making wise, cost-effective and safe decisions and in a manner that does not either demean the questioner nor disparage the advice offered by others.

 

[HappyOne]

I suppose you reach a point where your deciding to buy an implement that will fail before the tractor. In the case of a 1140lb box vs a 900lb one, I suspect either would cause something on the tractor to fail first. I could forgo the hydraulic rippers and probably get a similarly strong box that meets the weight spec.

I appreciate all the comments!

James

 

[EdKing]

What I don't understand, is why would anyone design a 3ph with a lift rating of 1 1/2 tons, and then tell you you can only use it for less than a 1/2 ton. I can understand not wanting to pull around the full 3200 lbs on the 3ph, but 900 lbs.? From the description of the tractor, loaded tires and FEL, he should have no problem with the box blade other than loosing traction if he gets to agressive with the angle/scarifier depth. Remember, a lot of engineering principles were devoloped on study, investigation, and a good healthy dose of <font color=blue>COMMON SENSE.</font color=blue>

 

[ddl]

I think what is confusing is the amoiunt the 3 pt can lift and how much weright the implement can exert on the 3 pt. If the first is larger then the second, it is because you have to calculate the lenght of the movement arm of the 3 pt. At the base of the tractor where the 3 pt connects to the tractor, the lifting abiltiy is larger, now move out to where the implement hooks on the arms and the weight of the implement times the lenght of the arms gives you the actual force on the 3 pt where it connects on to the tractor. So in real time, the amount of weight the 3 pt can lift at the point of the attachment is a lot less then the point where the arms connect to the tractor. Now to make things even worst, lets say the implements center of gravity point is 3 feet beyond the location of the arms where the pins attach. Now you have the weight of the implement times the lenght of arm plus the 3 feet of implement for the total force. So now with that type of equipment, the weight of the implement must be less then another type of implement when the center of gravity os closer to the actual connection to the three point arms. It is for this reason, different implements have different weight limits on a certain tractor. Easy isn't it!!!!

Dan L

 

[Harv]

Wow!

I go to bed after a little tractor chit-chat and wake up amidst flames! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

I am a tractor neophyte fer sure, Dan, but before I became a computer geek I was well on my way to a degree in mechanical engineering. In fact, when I was a data processing manager for Upright Scaffolds I frequently wound up working with the design engineers because they seem to value my opinion on various issues. I also worked part time with a buddy of mine who did become a true mechanical engineer (and is now a millionaire from the company he started). He used and built several of my designs. He liked my creativity and the fact that I tended to over-design and paid a lot of attention to structural integrity.

Flimsy qualifications, I know, but I am not totally ignorant of engineering mindsets. Cheap stuff should exceed the manufacturers recommendations by at least 50%. The good stuff will have a safety margin of 300% or more. In today's sue-happy climate manufacturers are covering their fannies with more and more conservative recommendations. James' boxblade of choice is 25% over the weight "limit", which may hurt his chances in a court of law, should his tractor fail as a result, but realistically it should perform just fine.

Anyone who has welded a chain hook to their FEL bucket is in gross violation of the manufacturer's recommendations. My owner's manual says I shouldn't use a box blade that covers my tracks when the wheels are set wide, but I chose (in an educated sort of way) to take the chance. I may never use my tractor enough to find out its true limitations, or it might fail tomorrow. We pays our money and takes our chances.

IMHO

 

[Anonymous Poster]

<font color=blue>… you must know what you are talking about,… you must have knowledge about that subject….</font color=blue>

Dan… Dan… Dan… /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

No offense intended… What happened to ya…? Had a real stressful weekend…? Please Dan, don’t take it out on us… /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Remember… this is a tractor “public” forum, not a college classroom…(not that it should make a hill of beans of difference…except in the classroom, you the professor - “control” what is said and done… but here you don’t…)

It would be one thing, if we’re all in person (easier to read facial expressions and body language that’s missing here)… the misspoken words with time are soon forgotten… however the “miswritten” words can always be seen and long remembered…

But hey, I’m just a dumb farm boy, what do I know…? Here on this public forum, being argumentative is just not acceptable… and certainly not in the good will and spirit of TBN…(that’s why God invented private emails /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif)

Another sign I have on my wall is:

Anger is only one letter short of Danger…

Dan, I hope you’ll feel better later… /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[skent]

But hey, I’m just a dumb farm boy, what do I know…?

John,

I been a member here for over a year, you are anything but that.

The time tested experience of Harv, Bird, Thomas, and you (Along with the usual bunch) have saved not only time and money (to those of us ready to listen to you) but quite possibly prevented injuries and damage.

No. . . you guys are NOT dumb farm boys!

 

[Bird]

Can you set your own speed rate? Well . . ., maybe./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif The law in Texas (and some other states) says, "An operator may not drive at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances then existing." Now without going into the lengthy detail (which you can read for yourself on Texas' website), it goes on to say that a speed in excess of that posted is prima facie evidence that it's greater than is reasonable and prudent. And, nope, I don't have a law degree either/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif, but I'm betting that you know a prima facie case can be, and sometimes is, rebutted. So if you can convince a judge or jury that your speed was not unreasonable and imprudent, it's legal.

So all I'm saying is that there are a few, but comparatively few, hard and fast rules, but there are a lot of good guidelines. I'll also bet that even you don't believe everything you read. Just because it's "in the book" doesn't always make it a fact, or mean that it's an absolute. Now I certainly respect an engineer's education, opinions, and recommendations, but that doesn't mean I totally agree with everything every engineer says. Weren't there some engineers involved in the design and construction of the Titanic, the Exxon Valdez, and the World Trade Center?/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

However, your point is well taken about overloading or putting additional stresses on a tractor (or anything else), and I doubt that either of us could ever convince the other that he's mistaken, but it's been fun and interesting./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Oh, by the way, I just finished spreading 200# of fertilizer and fire ant bait, and I used my gen-u-wine Sears spreader, recommended by Sears, to pull behind my Craftsman lawn tractor, so I do go by the book a lot of the time./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[kyoders]

Dan,

You seem to have made the assumption that the engineers wrote the user's manual. From my experience, it is usually an entirely different group, working with input from the engineers, but also the sales people. Has anyone looked at the specs of implements sold by Kubota? I haven't, but would not be overly surprised if their offerings just happen to match up very well with the recommendations in the various users' manuals. Of course, it could just be that Kubota only makes implements (or puts their name on somebody else's) that match up well to the tractors they sell. It is also possible that the marketing folks may have suggested that their users' manuals should encourage people to buy Kubota-branded implements. Like most things in life, I suspect the truth is somewhere between the extremes.

I work in the "computer biz", but I am an electrical engineer by training (I did NOT finish my degree, so I am not actually an engineer). From my experience, I take anybody "having the degree" with a grain of salt. I've met, known, and worked with people that had the requisite degree, and couldn't find their posterior with both hands (I find that particularly true with "computer engineers", "software engineers", and MIS/CIS degrees in general). When I worked at General Dynamics, probably 80% of the people working in my groups had engineering degrees. The next most common was psychology, then math of some sort. I knew one contractor who had a PhD in art (he had a BS in electrical engineering and I believe an MBA). My point being that possession of a degree does not necessarily make me grovel before somebody. There are plenty of people out there without degrees that I have a great deal of respect for, and whose opinions I value.

Perhaps we should create a standard disclaimer, maybe something like "their are members of this forum that disagree with my opinion, so you better not listen to anything I say." I just thought of a funny joke that might apply: Q. What is the difference between god and an engineer? A. god doesn't think he's an engineer

Kevin

 

[rbargeron]

Geesh - what a thread! Hey Dan, forget our vitamin P today?

A couple notes about degrees - I have some but the stuff I feel I know best didn't come that way. For instance, the BSME was a good introduction to the moment law (treated above) but working around machinery and construction is a more profound teacher.

Speaking of teaching, around our campus it's considered pretty bad form to take a swing at the professor emeritus.