Squirming Salesman

viking65 · Mar 5, 2005

I was at the local John Deere dealership this morning at the parts desk to pick up a new top link for my tractor. The parts desk happened to be within earshot of the compact tractor salesman. A couple was talking to him about about a 4115 and a few other JD compacts. They also revealed that they were looking at Kubota and Kioti. The husband really liked the Kioti CK, he was hitting the JD salesman with the weight advantage, more features, and significant cost savings over the JD.

The JD salesman was having a tough time responding...."Kioti is not in the same class as John Deere"...."There are no local dealers" (there is a well stocked Kioti dealer 15 miles from the JD dealer)...."I'm not sure how long Kioti will be around"...."no parts availability"..."Kioti is really not a top tier tractor"...."Kioti's are made in Korea".....

I have looked at the Kioti's several times and I know they are great tractors, just to big for my needs at present. I have a sub-cut now. I thought this was hilarious I wanted to this on TBN as soon as I got home. I thought that the Kioti forum might have fun with this /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

GRUMPA · Mar 5, 2005

Believe me thats not all that uncommon. When I was looking for tractors about a year ago I got the same line from the salesmen. I even told them I was getting my info from here at TBN and they all bashed the site saying that people didn't know what they were talking about and they did since they are a dealer (Yeah Riiiiiiiiight). Even now I'll call them up for a price on an attachment and first thing out of their mouth is what kind of tractor is it. All the time they are saying that since they sell only top line equipment since mine is an imported tractor if anything ever fails with the attachment the warranty may be void. And he started to recite from memory that the major manufacturers stated in their warranty that their equipment is only covered if it's used on like the big3 tractor makers. Hence I have most of what I need shipped in.

KiotiJohn · Mar 5, 2005

Not unusual for someone to do when they can't justify the price their trying to extricate from an unsuspecting buyer. Thanks for the post. John

cag · Mar 5, 2005

Viking the same thing goes on up here has a matter of fact I had a sale Rep really getting pist off at me just for mentioning KIOTI it was actually pretty entertaining LOL... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif...cag

Bob_Skurka · Mar 5, 2005

I was talking to the owner of the local Kubota/Case/Cub dealership recently and gave some compliments to both Mahindra and Kioti and the dealer just started talking the "party line" just like your John Deere dealership did to the guy near you. When I had a similar conversation with my sales rep the New Holland dealership, he walked me over to show me their new line of Branson tractors. It is obvious that some dealers believe the Korean made tractors are garbage while others realize the truth and see them as quality products that are strong competition. I think when more of the Korean made units offer more versions in HST then there will be some major changes in the sales rankings of the major tractor companies. And I think that day is coming very soon.

Dargo · Mar 5, 2005

How about this; one of my JD dealers told me that he was looking into possibly purchasing a Kioti franchise. Now that doesn't sound much like a slam. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

GerardC · Mar 5, 2005

( How about this; one of my JD dealers told me that he was looking into possibly purchasing a Kioti franchise. Now that doesn't sound much like a slam. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif)

To be totally honest, I don't think that it will be long before KIOTI is considered by society as one of the big three tractor manufacturers out there. Rome wasn't built in a day. As dealerships become more strewn about, so will the KIOTI tractors on peoples properties.
As they say,"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em". Gerard

JayC · Mar 5, 2005

To be totally honest, I don't think that it will be long before KIOTI is considered by society as one of the big three tractor manufacturers out there. 

I'm afraid with that distinction, the prices will also reflect it. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I was looking at a Kioti ad in the Michigan Auto-Rv magazine and the dealer had a CK20TLB for $15,000 and a CK30HST with FEL for $15,000. I think those prices are very good. The CK30 SS with FEL was $14,000. Made me want to hop in the car and head to the dealer, even if it is 93 miles away. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif But alas, I'm not in a position to be seriously looking yet. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

One thing I noticed if the ad, was for the CK20 they stressed the point that it isn't a SubCUT. Guess they get a lot of remarks about it, too. I thought it was a TBN thing. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

GerardC · Mar 5, 2005

I'm afraid with that distinction, the prices will also reflect it. 

Your probably right. BUT, the good thing about that for us would be that we knew and bought in at the right time /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Only time will tell /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. Gerard

KiotiJohn · Mar 6, 2005

( I was looking at a Kioti ad in the Michigan Auto-Rv magazine and the dealer had a CK20TLB for $15,000 and a CK30HST with FEL for $15,000. )
Yes, those prices are very good, and they're also not supposed to be in any advertisement. Kioti doesn't allow pricing to be done in any advertising. This goes back to my point that MSRP should be allowed on dealer sites, and Kioti's site so that there's a fairer playing ground, but for this dealer to be advertising prices like this is unfair to all the dealers who follow the rules. John

bigtractor · Mar 6, 2005

Hey john we can post msrp but dang nobody would call.

CK30 $16279 plus frt plus set up plus a loader for $3174

"Call today CK30 with loader $20,000"

Dave

KiotiJohn · Mar 6, 2005

( Hey john we can post msrp but dang nobody would call.

CK30 $16279 plus frt plus set up plus a loader for $3174

"Call today CK30 with loader $20,000" )
I've never seen anyone post MSRP, and since when was it allowed? Even Kioti doesn't post it.
Other brand sellers that post MSRP state that it is, and that if you call, you can get the better price. That may work for others as well. New Holland has started making Corriher and its other dealers start posting MSRP only. Corriher used to post their sales on Ebay, but now they're all MSRP. John

AutoUnionTypeC · Mar 6, 2005

John, as a consumer don't you find the whole idea of restricted price information offensive? What's the point? Do they really think it's their right to funnel my money to uncompetitive dealers? Is that what these policies are about? Keep the consumer ignorant then use him as you see fit? If this is the case then they (the manufactures) are playing a very dangerous game. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif Regards, J

KiotiJohn · Mar 6, 2005

( John, as a consumer don't you find the whole idea of restricted price information offensive? )
Yes, it's offensive. In my opinion, any dealer should be able to post whatever he's willing to sell for. But when that happens, dealers get blasted by the MFG because other dealers call them and accuse the cheaper dealer of dumping. I say, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. But then, there are those dealers who can't buy as much inventory as some other dealers, thus their prices must be a little higher to make it. It's not an easy situation on many fronts, but I think all dealers should be able to advertise their sale prices, regardless. John

bluechip · Mar 6, 2005

It is my understanding that Kioti (probably others too) are not allowed to post discounted pricing on a national basis, as in internet pricing. I believe local advertising is OK. At one time the Koreans where primarily competing on price. Now it is overall value, what you get for the money. May be just a little less than a "big 3" but probably more fully featured, etc. Soon it will be the reputation of the tractor. Frankly I believe the only part of the equation that is missing today, is the market does not have a full awareness of the quality of the Kioti product. I still run into consumers that think that it should be 20 percent less than a more popular oragne tractor or it is not worht considering. I think they are missing out. Had one young man really looking hard, all his family has the other orange and so I guess he will to, pay more for less but didn't have the conficence in Kioti..This confidence is being built as you read this...stay tuned...

bigtractor · Mar 6, 2005

Here's how it is.
Can post MSRP and can get co-op ad money
No co-op with sale prices
And they don't want bidding wars and they really are alittle sensitive about selling near other dealers. If I start giving away units in another guys back yard nobody wins and I get a call.

This pretty much is what all manufacturers request.

That is all I know,
Dave

depratt_equip · Mar 7, 2005

You can advertise your selling price as long as its in your local area. Just can't do national advertising and publish prices.

KiotiJohn · Mar 7, 2005

( Here's how it is.
Can post MSRP and can get co-op ad money
No co-op with sale prices
And they don't want bidding wars and they really are alittle sensitive about selling near other dealers. )
Well, that's more fair than I thought it was. I can understand what a problem it could be to another dealer if someone far away is advertising for much less, but if someone wants to buy from far away, oh well! John

getut · Mar 7, 2005

Expanding the conversation a little... Here is something I ran across at purchase time.

I have 2 Kioti dealers both about 35 miles from me. One is Kioti only, the other is a huge store that carries Kubota, Massey, and Kioti. Like always, I knew exactly what I wanted when I walked in to the store. I am ready to buy before I ever walk into a place for a major purchase. I told them what I wanted... and rather than start talking price, they start trying to talk me OUT of a CK20 and into a Kubota BX series. They had Kioti's on the lot and didn't seem to want to sell them. I argued, and even said that I didn't want a sub cut. I ended up walking out.

They have since dropped Kioti and only sell Kubota and Massey now. I can only speculate at the reasons, but I'll bet it is either that Kubota found out they were competing against Kioti on the same lot and put an end to it... or Kioti found out how their brand was being treated at that dealer.

Kiohio · Mar 8, 2005

It would be nice to know why things like this happen. There are so many variables that you really can't figure it out without knowing the salesman/dealership. We have big, other brand, dealer not far from us. They sell:Cub Cadet, Massey and Kubota. Regardless of what brand a person comes in for, they push them into a Kubota. I hear this from other customers. They also push MMM's. Alot of times the manufacturer will give the salesman a bonus on top of what the dealership pays them. If they sell alot of other brands and one brand gives them $100 and the others give them nothing, which brand do you think the salesman is going to push the hardest, regardless of the dealerships profit?

KO