St. Louis Auto show.(Heavy pic thread)

[Fordman1981]

Not all gassers. I have been a fan of the Ford's for so long because they have chosen to make grunt and don't care so much about HP numbers. In all seriousness look at the Nissan, Toyota, and Ford and they all make 80% or more of the avaliable torque below 2000 rpm.

Chris

Really I have to call you on this one. 2003 for 250 with 5.4 max torque at 2400 rpm but only a gutless pig 263 ft lbs. The 2003 ram that you said didn't make any power till 4,000 rpms has actually a very nice torque curve making more torque than the max the ford makes at 1500 rpm. Yes the ford makes it's max torque lower but that just means it runs out of steam early. the rest of it's revving rpm range it's loosing power.

 

[Topkicker]

My pics were blurry on the Silverado High Country. If you like a Bow-Tie over a GMC and want the luxury of a Denali, here's the truck. This is a step above the LTZ package.

 

[Topkicker]

Really I have to call you on this one. 2003 for 250 with 5.4 max torque at 2400 rpm but only a gutless pig 263 ft lbs. The 2003 ram that you said didn't make any power till 4,000 rpms has actually a very nice torque curve making more torque than the max the ford makes at 1500 rpm. Yes the ford makes it's max torque lower but that just means it runs out of steam early. the rest of it's revving rpm range it's loosing power.<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=357377"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=357378"/>

Nice chart. The curve is much flatter on the Ram. The 4000RPM # is just the peak of the torque. Doesn't mean much. The consistency of torque is much more important. I was just trying to state what most of us already know. Diesel's produce more peak torque at a much lower RPM.

 

[Fordman1981]

Nice chart. The curve is much flatter on the Ram. The 4000RPM # is just the peak of the torque. Doesn't mean much. The consistency of torque is much more important. I was just trying to state what most of us already know. Diesel's produce more peak torque at a much lower RPM.

Very true and I agree with you. Just getting tired of DP saying the one Ram he ever owned which isn't even close to what they make now had to run 4,000 rpm or didn't make any power. According to the DYNO that just ins't true. Those charts I posted are at the rear tires. That is where it matters what you make at the tires.

 

[Fordman1981]

Nice chart. The curve is much flatter on the Ram. The 4000RPM # is just the peak of the torque. Doesn't mean much. The consistency of torque is much more important. I was just trying to state what most of us already know. Diesel's produce more peak torque at a much lower RPM.

Sorry don't mean to derail your thread. I think GM has a nice truck in the new trucks you've been working on and there is a market for them. A half ton doesn't work well for me much less a smaller truck like these but I do think they are nice trucks and will do everything they are designed to do and do it well.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Really I have to call you on this one. 2003 for 250 with 5.4 max torque at 2400 rpm but only a gutless pig 263 ft lbs. The 2003 ram that you said didn't make any power till 4,000 rpms has actually a very nice torque curve making more torque than the max the ford makes at 1500 rpm. Yes the ford makes it's max torque lower but that just means it runs out of steam early. the rest of it's revving rpm range it's loosing power.<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=357377"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=357378"/>

I have been around lots and lots of Fords. Every Super Duty I have been around, in, or driven has been diesel. The only 5.4 motors I have been around were in Expedition and F150 trucks.

The graph you showed was for the older SOHC motor. Granted it's comparing the same year as my 2500 Hemi so it is a fair comparison. But a chart does not always tell the entire story. The drive line, tranny, rear end, and often forgot about tire size can make the end result skewed. GM is good at this. They can get more power to the ground then Ford or Dodge. But this is rear wheel power but without tranny, gear ratio, and tire size info it is what it is.

Chris

 

[Fordman1981]

I have been around lots and lots of Fords. Every Super Duty I have been around, in, or driven has been diesel. The only 5.4 motors I have been around were in Expedition and F150 trucks.

The graph you showed was for the older SOHC motor. Granted it's comparing the same year as my 2500 Hemi so it is a fair comparison. But a chart does not always tell the entire story. The drive line, tranny, rear end, and often forgot about tire size can make the end result skewed. GM is good at this. They can get more power to the ground then Ford or Dodge. But this is rear wheel power but without tranny, gear ratio, and tire size info it is what it is.

Chris

No matter what you do with tires, trans, rear end or anything else you want to do is going to change the fact that the for peaks at 2400 rpm and will be loosing power as the rpms climb going up a hill which results in loosing speed. The long relatively flat torque curve of the hemi makes power early and keeps climbing gradually as the rpms increase which translates into increasing speed going up hill or at a minimum more likely to maintain speed on the same hill. If you want I can post the V10 chart which is even worse about making power soon and running out of steam. The newer 6.2 ford has makes power more like the hemi. but not near as flat. It's power really does like you said your 03 did doesn't really come into power until higher rpms. The 6.2 chat is really volatile not sure why that is. I think the new 6.4 hemi will be a good motor. They say that it is a truck motor from ground up. Not just the 6.4 car motor stuffed in a truck.

 

[Topkicker]

Sorry don't mean to derail your thread. I think GM has a nice truck in the new trucks you've been working on and there is a market for them. A half ton doesn't work well for me much less a smaller truck like these but I do think they are nice trucks and will do everything they are designed to do and do it well.

Thank you. I and many others (2700+ people and their families) here in Missouri are proud to have this new product. I've worked on 5 new product launches in four different states. This may be my last. I would like to retire here in MO. The older I get, the harder the moves get. I think all of the "Big Three" have done a good job in the truck segment. A lot of great designs and new technology have been introduced in the last few years and more are yet to come.

 

[Diamondpilot]

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=357386"/>

No matter what you do with tires, trans, rear end or anything else you want to do is going to change the fact that the for peaks at 2400 rpm and will be loosing power as the rpms climb going up a hill which results in loosing speed. The long relatively flat torque curve of the hemi makes power early and keeps climbing gradually as the rpms increase which translates into increasing speed going up hill or at a minimum more likely to maintain speed on the same hill. If you want I can post the V10 chart which is even worse about making power soon and running out of steam. The newer 6.2 ford has makes power more like the hemi. but not near as flat. It's power really does like you said your 03 did doesn't really come into power until higher rpms. The 6.2 chat is really volatile not sure why that is. I think the new 6.4 hemi will be a good motor. They say that it is a truck motor from ground up. Not just the 6.4 car motor stuffed in a truck.<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=357384"/>

What I am getting at is a real low final drive ratio can be grate for power but in the real world cause you to hold a much higher rpm to hold speed.

Here is another example. My 07 5.4L F150 needed 3000 rpm to hold 65 mph pulling my 9700# boat. I sold that truck and bought a 08 Nissan Titan. It has a little more power, 17 more HP and 20 FT TQ, and a extra gear, but can pull the same load at 1800 rpm and maintain 65 mph while getting about 15% better fuel economy than the F150.

While both trucks do the job just fine the Titan is a more comfortable ride to me because the motor never exceeds 3500 rpm on the biggest hills. One I travel every weekend in the summer is 7% for a miles.

So while charts are great towing and seeing which combo works tells the whole story.

Chris

 

[ME83]

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=357386"/> If you want I can post the V10 chart which is even worse about making power soon and running out of steam.<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=357384"/>

I agree in stock form, with a 5 star tune it is a different story

http://www.5startuning.com/wp-content/uploads/rv-3v-gains2.jpg