Stalling B2410

Nik · Jun 14, 2004

I need your collective expertise. Hooked my B2410 HST to a 4 ft WOODS brushbull rotary cutter this evening. I drove the tractor out of the barn with the cutter about 50 feet to a field of 3 foot grass. Ran smooth. Engaged the PTO at low speed and advanced to rated RPM. After about 25 feet of cutting in low range the tractor started lugging, losing power and ultimately stalling. I disengaged the PTO. Checked all fluid levels and radiater filter. All were normal. Started the tractor again without a problem. It ran fine. However when I engaged the rotary cutter the same thing happenned after going 20 to 30 feet. I restarted the tractor easily and drove back to the barn. The 3 point hitch would lift the cutter as usual. I checked to make sure the parking brake was off and it was. My thought is that the PTO shaft may not be turning easily and placing too much load to the tractor. I checked the oil level in the cutter gearbox. It seems very low. When I unscrew the side drain some thick yellowish oil comes out so it isn't completely empty. This rotary cutter does have a slipclutch but I could not hear it slipping during operation. The cutter is about 2 years old and barn kept. As it is now dark I did not want to disconnect the cutter from the tractor. My small barn has no lights. The tractor had been run this weekend with a finish mowerand worked well. The fuel tank is at least half fuel. What should I check or do next? Thanks for your help.

Nik · Jun 14, 2004

Asked my wife if the tractor stalled when finish mowing this weekend. She recalls one time that the engine lugged slighltly 3/4 through her mowing. Perhaps I could have some water in the diesel fuel causing the B2410 to stall. I did refuel it with diesel prior to her mowing as the tank was almost empty. Does this make sense? How do I check for water? Look at the fuel bowl?

HOGAN · Jun 15, 2004

NIK

HOW DO YOU FUEL YOUR TRACTOR---CANS OR PUMP????
YOU MAY HAVE WATER IN THE TANK ,THIS WILL MAKE ONE LOOSE POWER AND STALL, BUT SOME TIMES WITH WHITE SMOKE AND ROUGH RUNNING WITH LOW RPM'S EVEN WITH THROTTLE WIDE OPEN. IF ENGINE SLOWLY DROPS RPM'S FROM A HIGH THROTTLE SETTING UNDER LOAD AND THEN RE-CRANKS EASY--YOU MAY HAVE TRASH IN A FUEL LINE ON THE SUCTION SIDE OF FUEL PUMP.....OR FILTER.... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Zoomie · Jun 15, 2004

Did you try cutting the grass with the mower raised so that you are not cutting all 3 feet at once?

It may just be too much of a load for the tractor/mower to handle... my 1700 & 5 ft rotary mower will bog down in really tall, thick, coastal bermuda (such as grows on the back side of my pond's dam) if I try to cut more than 10-12" in height at a time.

It gets even worse if the blades are dull... When was the last time the blades on your rotary cutter were shapened?

Egon · Jun 15, 2004

Fuel filter replacement time??

Have you checked the gearbox to see if it gets hot??

Will it bog down with cutter engaged and at proper RPM if you do not cut any grass or take a very small swipe?

Egon

Bird · Jun 15, 2004

Have you looked underneath the mower yet to see if there's anything that might cause an unusual load? The one time my B2710 seemed to be losing power while mowing a pasture, I found that I had run over a rope and it was wrapped up pretty well under there. And my brother did the same thing, but ran over baling wire and got it wrapped up underneath.

slowzuki · Jun 15, 2004

Sounds like clogged filter. At full throttle it will create a vaccum in the line between injection pump and filter. Letting it sit lets the vaccum draw more fluid through.

Only will happen at full throttle under load. Your accelerator set the governor speed but under load the injection pump increases the amount of fuel delivered.

I've had it happen when trying to drive on the highway at full speed, it will cut out, then run, end up having to reduce speed and drive slow until replacing the filter.
Ken

theboman · Jun 15, 2004

Hogan, typing in all CAPS is YELLING and you may consider taking the CAPS LOCK off.
Thanks
Bo

( NIK

HOW DO YOU FUEL YOUR TRACTOR---CANS OR PUMP????
YOU MAY HAVE WATER IN THE TANK ,THIS WILL MAKE ONE LOOSE POWER AND STALL, BUT SOME TIMES WITH WHITE SMOKE AND ROUGH RUNNING WITH LOW RPM'S EVEN WITH THROTTLE WIDE OPEN. IF ENGINE SLOWLY DROPS RPM'S FROM A HIGH THROTTLE SETTING UNDER LOAD AND THEN RE-CRANKS EASY--YOU MAY HAVE TRASH IN A FUEL LINE ON THE SUCTION SIDE OF FUEL PUMP.....OR FILTER.... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif )

fishman · Jun 15, 2004

Sounds like you may have been creating too large of a load for your tractor. Many times when bushogging, the cut material will build up under the deck at first until it reaches a certain amount, then it starts exiting the back of the mower. This could cause the symptoms you are describing because the load at first is less and gradually increases. Or you could just have been going too fast.

Just a thought. You can check this by raising the hog and seeing if you have grass build up.

EastTexFrank · Jun 15, 2004

Sounds as if it just being overloaded. A steady diet of 3' high Bermuda is pretty tough on a big tractor, never mind a little one. I had to return to the barn to tighten up the slip clutch on a 7' heavy duty Servis pulled by a 75 hp tractor this past weekend when I was cutting 3' high Coastal. Sometimes it's difficult to see a slip clutch slipping until it starts to smoke ... then you know.

I think if you slow down, use the low range and cut a little higher on the first pass, you'll be OK. After that you can probably speed up again but you may have to reduce the cutting width to 3' or so to stop overloading it and lugging down.

Like Bird said, check the deck to make make sure you don't have any "foreign matter" rapped round the blades or stump jumper.

Nik · Jun 15, 2004

Thanks for your suggestions. The problem is with the tractor and not the rotary cutter. I disconnected the cutter and checked the pan and blades. They spin freely and there is no wire or rope caught in it. The oil level in the gearbox is correct as per the manual and dealer. It should come up only to the side drain plug and does. I have used this cutter before in thicker brush with no lack of power. I drove the tractor without any implement and engaged the rear PTO. It worked fine. Then I shut off the rear PTO and while heading back to the barn the engine seemed to hesitate briefly as though fuel deprived and then resumed operation. The RPM dropped then and when back to its setting. I hooked up the cutter again. Engaged the PTO and the blades turned as they should. Just driving on short lawn the engine began to hesitate and RPMS dropped. It conked out. I disengaged the rear PTO and waited a minute. The tractor restarted easily on the first try and the engine acted normal. I drove and parked in the barn. I then varied the rpms, After about a minute the engine lost RPM's and power and died. The tractor does restart after a brief wait. I guess this may point to an intermiitent fuel blockage. I have the dealer picking it up on Thursday as I don't want to get into a fuel mess by trying to drain my tank and change the filters. Especially if this is not the problem. Of note is that I forgot to put the fuel cap on after the last fillup as I was distracted by other duties. The cap was off overnight before I discovered my error. The tractor was in the barn at the time. Although a critter or insect may have ventured into the tank I cannot see any obvious debris in the half full tank. Do you all think this is a fuel blockage or clogged filter? I will keep you posted of the dealer diagnosis and fix when done. Thanks again for your help.

HOGAN · Jun 16, 2004

bo,

Sorry, I guess I've been YELLING ALL MY LIFE,SO JUST TURN YOUR HEARING AID down.

thanksssssss---

HOGAN

Bird · Jun 16, 2004

( Do you all think this is a fuel blockage or clogged filter? )

With the additional information you've provided, yes, that would be my guess.

Pks · Jun 16, 2004

Nik,

Can you view the fuel level in the fuel filter bowl? If so, try running the engine while watching the fuel level in the bowl. You might be able to see the fuel level go down while running at higher RPM.

This sort of problem happened to me once, in the winter. There was water and ice in the bowl. I was able to view the fuel in the bowl and watch the level drop to the bottom of the bowl in about 10 seconds. All I did was to treat the fuel with diesel fuel additive and empty the bowl twice. The ice chunks were stuck in the filter pleats and melted as soon as I warmed them with my breath.

-Peter

EastTexFrank · Jun 16, 2004

Ah!!!, I see now. I actually posted on a similar problem a couple of weeks ago. In my case I filled it with fuel at the farm and it started stalling when I brought it home. You could sit on the seat and look down at the right hand side at the fuel filter bowl and see the fuel level drop below the level of the filter. I could jump off when it started laboring, work the shut off valve a couple of times and watch it fill back up again. In my case the inlet to the fuel filter and shut off valve was gummed up. I washed it out out with carb cleaner, blew out the lines and added GUM OUT to my next couple of tankfuls and it seems to have done the trick. At least it's running a lot better and hasn't stalled for a few days now.

EastTexFrank · Jun 17, 2004

OK, I lied to you. After running a couple of tanks of fuel through it without a problem, it started again yesterday. Same symptoms ... engine starting to labor, fuel bowl being sucked dry. Dumped some more GUM OUT in the tank and that seemed to help but this is a frustrating problem. Keep us informed about what your dealer says. You KNOW that I'm going to be interested in his diagnosis.

My B2400 is coming up for its 800 hour service and has to go to the dealer for the valve clearance adjustment. Depending on what you find out, I may just had the problem over to him and say, "Fix it". 800 hours without a problem isn't bad though and this one may be my fault ... that's what is sooooo annoying. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Nik · Jun 17, 2004

Dealer picked up the tractor this morning. When my wife took it out of the barn to leave outside for pickup, the B2410 kept stalling. Later when the service person came, he started it and was able to drive it onto his flatbed truck without it stalling. Often letting the tractor sit for a while seems to delay the onset of the stalling. I will be away for week so this actually a convenient time for the tractor to be fixed. I will post a followup report of the problem and remedy when I return.

Nik · Jun 25, 2004

My B2410 was fixed, As I was away for a few days the dealer delivered it today. The problem was a wasp that got into the fuel tank clogging the fuel filter system assembly. As I said in the original post I had accidently left the fuel cap off overnight after I had refueled. The tractor was in the barn during that time. There are a fair amount of wasps that fly into the barn and may even have a nest in there. The tank was about half empty then. I discovered my mistake the next morning and replaced the fuel cap. The dealer cleaned the fuel lines and tank. He changed the fuel filter and added diesel fuel conditioner. I also had him put new blades on my WOODS brushog and add some oil to its gearbox as the level was somewhat low. The tractor runs smoothly now. I used it to brushog 3 to 4 feet weeds in a field today and the performance was perfect. No stalling and the tractor had no problem cutting through this thick brush. I am very pleased with my dealers responsiveness and promptness in handling this problem. From now on I will pay close attention to putting back the fuel cap after filling and not succumb to other distractions before this is done. Thanks again for your helpful suggestions.