Started burning E85

   / Started burning E85
  • Thread Starter
#11  
Well from what I understand you need to apply for a free permit. You can the legally make 10,000 gallons a year, you do have denature it with 3% gasoline. My research so far indicates that sugar mash would yeald the best results. There are a couple of stills I'm looking at. I am rather fascinated with the thought of making my own fuel. You have to remember that I'm also a long distance bicycle rider and my trucks tend to spend most of their life parked. I have a lot of reasons why I find this interesting.

This is the still that looks most promising to me
http://www.rainierdistillers.com/

Their is also this little jem if you have deep pockets
http://www.microfueler.com/
 
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   / Started burning E85 #12  
It is my understanding that it takes a lot of energy to make a gallon of ethanol. From what I have read by the time you count the decrease mileage component, it is a wash in energy used to create ethanol vs just using plain gasoline. If it weren't for government programs ethanol would not be possible as a stand alone business unit. Why pump money into an energy source that can't support itself. If we used sugar cane rather than corn, the math would work from what I understand. I am no expert, I may be reading erroneous information.

1) Using reasonable math, and realizing that a bushel of corn makes 2.8 gallons of ethanol and 17 lbs of high-protien livestock feed, credible studies show we gain about 20-30% gain in energy over what it costs to produce a gallon of ethanol. This includes growing the corn, fertilizer, transportation, etc.

This is not a terrific gain but it is a positive net gain as we struggle to find better fuel sources that actually work. With 'only' a 25% net gain in energy, at least it is something that does work, and works with mostly existing vehicles on the road.

Electric vehicles have a $7000 govt handout with each sold; they still cost more than a mid sized luxury; and then only go 50 miles before they die or need to run on gas anyhow. Hydrogen takes a different engine, and so far creating hydrogen takes more energy that it produces so is a negative. Ethanol you can put in a tank at 20-30% blend on any car, and very easy to become flexfuel and run 85% ethanol - no other alternative fuel can match that at all?

2) As of the 1st of the year, there is no ethanol subsidy. So the govt programs part no longer applies.

3) We are currently exporting 10% of USA corn ethanol production to Brazil - turns out corn is pretty fficient after all. Cane is limited to very few places on this earth. Corn grows well and plentiful in a large part of the USA, and we've improved efficiencies so much in the last 10 years, old studies are worthless. Went from 2.3 gallons pr bu to 2.8 bu, use less energy along the way, some plant even pull the ol from the corn and make bio-diesel from the corn as well - efficiency has improved tremendously.

4. Yup, ethanol cleans out an old fuel system, hopefully most places are running E10 now a days, so this is less of a problem. But E85 will loosen up old varnish in your 100% gasoline system and plug some filters. More of a negative as to how bad gasoline is, than to say it's a bad thing of ethanol? :)

5. Certainly not all, but some of the gasoline price increase in the last month comes from the ethanol subsidies ending on January 1st. A little less tax money spent now, but we pay a few more pennies per gallon of fuel. Kinda comes out a wash, but fairer I guess.

In the end, ethanol is not _the_ answer to our fuel problems, but it is a step, a help, a bridge where we can use our old cars and engines, as we search for even better options. Corn ethanol isn't perfect and it's not the total answer, but pretty hard to find fault with it if you look at the big picture.

--->Paul
 
   / Started burning E85 #13  
I have a love hate relationship with the big oil companies. I love for them to make big profits and in turn reinvest that money in upgrades which I have made a pretty darn good living for the last 44 years building those upgrades for the oil companies. I hate paying high prices for fuel and oil BUT I believe the government is mostly responsible for this. Oil prices stay fairly stable if speculators and governments stay the He!! away from the industry. Every time we issue some political statement regarding oil producing countries, the speculator jump out and start buying futures on the oil and the price starts rising at the pump which mostly has nothing to do with price of oil from the wells. The highest prices we paid for fuel a few years back was due to speculators buying oil up at inflated prices and of course continued to sell it at those prices even when well head price was falling below $35 per barrel we were still above $3 per gallon till congress was forced to look into it and of course then it immediately started coming back down eventually going below $2 at my area.
 
   / Started burning E85 #14  
rambler said:
2) As of the 1st of the year, there is no ethanol subsidy. So the govt programs part no longer applies.

5. Certainly not all, but some of the gasoline price increase in the last month comes from the ethanol subsidies ending on January 1st. A little less tax money spent now, but we pay a few more pennies per gallon of fuel. Kinda comes out a wash, but fairer I guess.

--->Paul

According to what diamondpilot has seen, if e10 gas is $3.00/gallon, e85 would have to be $2.10/gallon. Without the government subsidy, will this price spread exist to make it logical? I grew up in central Illinois and understand the farmers could greatly benefit from ethanol. Hopefully these increased prices will also allow the government to kill many of these subsidized farm programs.

Timber, I respect your desire to make your own fuel and hopefully it will be both a fun and economical venture. If not economical at least it will make you feel warm and fuzzy on the inside(not by consuming).
 
   / Started burning E85 #15  
it costs alot of money to load a boat with oil and haul it over here too...i think it costs alot to send a bunch of tanks, planes and guys in camo to those places to make sure we can still buy it, but maybe we shouldn't go there...

ethanol doesn't drive up the cost of food. A good portion of the corn that makes ethanol returns to the farm as cow feed, replacing corn in the rations, making more corn available.

I picked up a pickup with 60K on it, and started burning E85 pretty much exclusively until it had 100K and was traded off. No issues. Bought another one, a new one this time, and doing the same. No issues, and have 80K on it. Takes about 20% off my milage with a 2009 Silverado 1500 4wd. Did the same on the Avalanche before. Not everyplace does the price work out, but sometimes I still buy just out of the principal of it all.
 
   / Started burning E85
  • Thread Starter
#16  
E85 is easy for me to obtain so the decision is easyer for me perhaps. If I had to go way out of my way to purchase it I might no be so quick to jump on that band wagon. Since it is redialy available it seems to me to be the responsible thing to do.i believe in leavening things better than when you found them and considering my generation has done as much damage as good to our wonderful mother earth. I chose not to pollute the planet any more than I have too. Making my own fuel is more of an adventure that is fasinating to me than anything. It sounds more time consuming than costly out of pocket. I will have to see, I am still in research mode.
 
   / Started burning E85 #17  
nwbearcat said:
it costs alot of money to load a boat with oil and haul it over here too...i think it costs alot to send a bunch of tanks, planes and guys in camo to those places to make sure we can still buy it, but maybe we shouldn't go there...

That transportation cost is already shown at the pump. I was just comparing cost to the consumer. Don't see an advantage.

I am with you on the military evolvement. I was really for the pipeline to Canada but doesn't look like that will happen. I guess china will boat fuel their direction. Maybe now our empty tankers can back haul toward china. Doesn't make sense. Lol.
 
   / Started burning E85 #18  
"but someone with say 50,000 miles and starts using it will have troubles real quick. If lucky its just a fuel filter but can be the pump or injections. Ethanol is a great cleaner and will play havoc on a older system with the rapid clean up"


Chris

So my 2011 Chevy Siverado says Flex Fuel on it. Supposed to take ethanol with no problems. Does the above statement apply to designated flex fuel turcks in your opinion?
Mf[/QUOTE]
No. What I am saying is its such a good cleaner if you have not ran it then start to with a car or truck with say 50,000 miles or more you have a 50/50 chance of having real problems. It all depends on how clean your system is to start with.

When my uncle converted a 10,000 gallon in ground tank to E85 he had to change the filters on the pumps a few times a day for the first few days, them every other day, then every other week before he could go back to his normal once a month schedule. It had cleaned the tank so well that previously held 93 octane.

Chris
 
   / Started burning E85 #19  
It is my understanding that it takes a lot of energy to make a gallon of ethanol. From what I have read by the time you count the decrease mileage component, it is a wash in energy used to create ethanol vs just using plain gasoline. If it weren't for government programs ethanol would not be possible as a stand alone business unit. Why pump money into an energy source that can't support itself. If we used sugar cane rather than corn, the math would work from what I understand. I am no expert, I may be reading erroneous information.


I have a Bio-diesel plant 3 miles from my home. I went and took a tour back in 08 or 07 and I was amazed when the guy running the place told me they had $7 per gallon in the fuel. He said all the fuel they made was shipped via truck to New York then put on large tankers and shipped overseas where Diesel runs $8 per gallon or so. That was the only way they could make money.:confused2:

Chris
 
   / Started burning E85 #20  
We shouldn't be burning our food supply when there is plenty of oil available..E85 is a crock and nothing more than a giant wet kiss to corn growers...It is a government program..As Reagan said, nothing is closer to eternal life than a government program. And I don't worship at the Reagan alter..This is just factually true in every respect.

Until things change, we'll just have to live with it. We have no real power.
 

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