starting observation

billbill1 · Dec 22, 2004

Pioneer, I cut the lower radiator hose about 1-1/2" from the block and installed the 1-1/4" maybe 1-1/2" (not sure without looking) using the original hose on both sides. I had trouble getting the heater in but it went and doesn't leak. Mine will start in the cold but this makes it start much easier and I feel this is better on the engine and the starter. I took the Chinese oil out right away also, I had trouble pouring it out of the drain pan-it was so thick and nasty.

bluechip · Dec 22, 2004

The glow plugs are physically located in the top of the cylinder head. They are only energized with the key in the "H" position. You can tell they are working by the amp draw on the amp meter, will get pretty close to 30, then drop down some as they heat up. They really don't like to start if only one or two (or none) of them are working. When it is cold you need to hold the key in the H position for 20 seconds before cranking. Sometimes you need to return to the H position breifly while the engine begins to try to run.

F100Panel · Dec 22, 2004

I keep my Jinmas in the underhouse garage. Never gets below 50 in there... Have obviouisly not yet tried to start them in bitter cold. Should the need arise to start them outside without electricity available I do have a standby plan I thought I'd throw out for others to consider if stranded....

In the old days the 1940-50's diesel Catepillar equipment had gas pony motors for starters. You tripped the compression release on the main engine & spun the main engine with the pony motor a while for the friction of the pistons going up & down to warm the cylinder walls a tad. Then you let go of the compression release gave it some fuel & tried to start. On my Jinma I figured if caught with no supplemental heat possible, I'd pull the stop knob, engage the decompression, heat the glows & spin her some. Then I'd push the stop knob in, hit the glows again, get her spinning under decompression & then release the decompression with a good spin in progress & see what happens.... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif As I mentioned I've never tried it, it's a standby plan based on a proven old time method & in a given situation it's better than just hoping for the best....?

greg_g · Dec 22, 2004

( On my Jinma I figured if caught with no supplemental heat possible, I'd pull the stop knob, engage the decompression, heat the glows & spin her some. Then I'd push the stop knob in, hit the glows again, get her spinning under decompression & then release the decompression with a good spin in progress )
Delete the part about the "stop knob", and you've just described most of the standard recommended cold start procedure.

Yours may be different, but both Jinmas I had had spring returns on both the compression release and on the fuel cutoff (stop knob). After being pulled out, then had to be held out to work. And since the Heat and Start positions on the OE ignition switch are also spring loaded, I'm not sure how this could be accomplished with less than three hands.

//greg//

greg_g · Dec 22, 2004

( I see a lonnnggggg.... discussion between you and Greg comming )
Not to worry John.
I'm learning (albeit slowly) that when somebody asks a question
- then shoots the messenger -
it's often a good idea to simply leave it as a "one-sided" discussion

//greg//

greg_g · Dec 22, 2004

( I jury rigged mine with part of the original hose and some high pressure black hose from Tractor Supply. I got it in but it leaks. )
When I changed hoses on my Jinmas, I changed hose clamps as well.

Plus, I don't think the Asian wire-type hose clamps are effective on high pressure hose.

If you haven't already, try a band-type clamp on the leaking section.

//greg//

Boltonpower · Dec 22, 2004

Mark

What type of Ford starter did you find to fit??

Thanks
Graham

thegreatrandini · Dec 22, 2004

I am not far away. SE of Topeka about 10 miles.

F100Panel · Dec 22, 2004

I believe the only novel idea I was trying to offer was using the decompression lever after warming the glow plugs could get you an extended crank time without the load of compression overheating the starter. That extended cranking time using the piston friction to warm the cylinder walls.. Once heated the glows stay warm a while and help with drawing warmed air into the cylinders even though they are not being heated while cranking..

If one needs to get into minute detail the old bungy cord on the pull stop will work eliminating the need for the 3rd hand /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

greg_g · Dec 22, 2004

( I believe the only novel idea I was trying to offer was using the decompression lever after warming the glow plugs could get you an extended crank time without the load of compression overheating the starter. )
No offense, but there's nothing novel about it. The point I was trying to make, is that your standby plan simply describes the cold starting procedure specified in the Jinma 2XX series operator manuals. Without the "stop knob" idea, that is.

//greg//

MarkNHow · Dec 22, 2004

Graham,

This is the link from John's site. I think the first letter of the part number was an E when I ordered but I'm not sure.

http://www.johnstractor.com/files/Ford_switch2.doc

Mark H

Soundguy · Dec 22, 2004

( one of my antiques is down for repair right now.

Need some white lithum grease??
)

Eh?

My 8n is down with a broke steering shaft. machinist has the part, and I just ordered a new bearing set while I'm waiting.

Soundguy

Soundguy · Dec 22, 2004

( I see a lonnnggggg.... discussion between you and Greg comming )
Not to worry John.
I'm learning (albeit slowly) that when somebody asks a question
- then shoots the messenger -
it's often a good idea to simply leave it as a "one-sided" discussion
)

I believe you are being a bit unfair here. I purposefully made no reply to that comment about the long discussion.

My points in my question, and my reply to you were valid, and non-inflamitory. Since I was looking at the 20hp model, I DID ask the question(s) I thought were pertanint.

I'll say again what I've said before. We might have more readership or participation if it were a tad friendlier here. Compaired to virtually all the other subs, if you want a beating.. it is well known that you can come here, and ask a quality or performance question about a chineese tractor, and in short order, the beating arives.

Soundguy

Boltonpower · Dec 23, 2004

Mark,,

Oh! I know about the starter switch. You said 'Starter" so
I thought you had substituted and actual Ford stater motor...

Graham

ToolManRick · Dec 23, 2004

Well SoundGuy, I think you'll enjoy your chioce of a Jinma. I lived in Florida north of Tampa for about ten years. So, I'm a little familar with the sandy soil. For a few more bucks you could do the 4 wheel thing and would probably be thankful at some point you could spin all four. I do recall a buddy of mine sinking his 4w drive Blazer right down to the axles. Had to dig him out, but it was fun.

I don't have any winter experience starting mine yet, but it cranks right up at 50 degrees. There is definetly a learning curve. I found using the compression release created an extra rich mix of fuel and wasn't necessary. I can relate to the idea of using the fuel stop while decompressing to prevent dumping fuel in the cylinder that isn't going to ignite without compression. I'll bet someone could come up with linkage that would decompress and shut off the fuel. Lots of different methods depending on the weather conditions. I'm gonna wish I was back in FL when we get the really lousy weather coming up.

2000fxdl · Dec 23, 2004

I live in Eastern Iowa and when I got my JM 284 in 2000 it would not crank fast enough ( actually... hardly at all) to start on it's own (just glow plugs) at 25 degrees. I was using 15w-40 at that time. I drained it and replaced it with 0w-30 Mobil 1 synthetic and it was a night and day difference. It will now start on it's own to about 15 degrees. Below this it will still crank fast but will not fire with out a slight bit of ether ( without using the glow plugs). With the "tiny bit" (key word) of ether it has started instantly down to 15-20 below. Now to my KM554.....It has 15w-40 Rotella in it because it holds 3 gallons of oil and at $21/gallon for mobil 1...it was kinda salty! ....It is sitting in my drive and it is 3 below right now. I will not even try and start it until it gets up to 25 degrees. I tryed yesterday when it hit the high of 8 degrees and even with a 200 amp booster on the battery, it would not crank over hardly at all. Now that I know it will not start or even crank over fast enough to use ether, I will bite the bullet and get the sythetic for it too and that will cure that. It may not start with out ether but at least it will crank over so I can use it!! I will be also getting the manifold flame heater hooked up on it soon, since it is equiped with one.
The bottom line is that if you live up north, the 0 weigh Mobil 1 synthetic oil will help you start them and don't worry...it is rated for diesel engine use and will actually protect the vitals at even elevated temps much better than dino oil! JJA

Soundguy · Dec 23, 2004

( For a few more bucks you could do the 4 wheel thing and would probably be thankful at some point you could spin all four )

I do hear what you are saying about 4wd. Just isn't necescary on my property. I did own a NH 1920 up until this year, and used the 4wd exactly twice. Once when discing my pasture.. and it was very usefull. The other when I got stuck in a 'dry pond'. And the 4wd just burried both axles, instead of just the rear axle. I now have a large tractor if i ever need to disc.. so on my flat land.. 4wd is just a 'expensive' accessory. Besides.. if I really need pulling power to pull something.. I can drop a chain from my NH 7610s.. if that don't pull it in 2wd.. I doubt a 20, 25 or 30 hp tractor with 4wd would pull it either... just a weight / traction issue.

Another thing is price. I'm thinking of 2wd for a price savings. For one thing.. I'm gonna be making payments on the NH 7610s for a while.. and that dries up a great deal of my tractor budget. If I did spend more money.. I'd try to get more hp, rather than more drive axles.. though.. I guess if I got to 25 hp.. I'll be 'stuck' getting PS and 4wd no matter what. I don't think homier has 25 hp NO-PS and 2wd? do they?

Thanks for the friendly answer. I'm not trying to 'shoot the messenger' as Greg would like to claim.. I'm asking realistic questions that need to have a concrete answer before I plunk down 4-5K$. Because for half of that price I could have a new engine, clutch, brakes, seals, and steering rebuild on my 33hp ford NAA and for all intents and purposes have just as reliable tractor that will last another 50 years, minus live pto/2 stage clutch and rops. ( add another 490$ and I could have the rops as well.. another 250 and have power steering on the NAA.... in other words.. for about 3k$ I could have my NAA at about the same level as the 30hp jinma.. minus the 4wd and live pto/2 stage clutch.. etc... ) I just need to decide where that money goes. I wouldn't mind the newer small tractor.. However the old one that has been here for 50 years is just a bit 'time tested', and I know the in's and outs of it.. whereas I don't have the experience with the chinese units.. Hence my posts and questions here...

Soundguy

thegreatrandini · Dec 23, 2004

I say it will cost u more money with jinma but u'll have a new toy. To figure true cost u'd have to look into resale values!!!
As i have said before I'd like one of little Jinmas with turf tires for a second tractor and a heck of a mower..... I also like the old ih cubs...... Not sure where to spend the money if I get it. The wife will prob want a new floor or something. I am lucky to have one tractor.....

johnk · Dec 23, 2004

It's the price of a medium sized Quad but does 10X the work. I bought a Noma 10 HP snowblower 2 years ago and it rusted up so tight I had to sawzall the axle and put all new bearings and stuff in it. For the price the Jinma is a great machine and should last for years to come. Just my opinion.

http://users.adelphia.net/~gizmo/

alpha · Dec 24, 2004

Ive got a 35 hp jinma and it starts fine in a cold new england day. block heater then glow plugs for 60 sec. kerosene is always good, I use 25% for winter