Status of Everything Attachments

[Sid Post]

With Ted's, the owner, $5.5 Million lakefront mansion, how will he pay property taxes and basic upkeep? I am assuming there is a big loan on his house considering the cost but, if he was funding it out of EA Attachments proceeds and defrauded customers, there might be some action there.

Will lawyers be able to PIERCE THE VEIL?

“Piercing the veil” is a legal term that describes a situation where a court holds a corporation's shareholders or directors personally liable for the corporation's debts or actions. This is also known as “piercing the corporate veil”.

A court will only pierce the veil if it would result in an injustice. This requires more than evidence that a creditor will not get paid. It requires evidence that the corporation or LLC was used in some way to perpetrate a fraud or accomplish some other wrongful purpose.

 

[plowhog]

Running a business involves risk. But requiring payment in advance of receiving a product or service transfers much of that risk to the customer. What is regrettable is that it also increases the number of customers hurt when things go south.

Here is another memorable company that required payment in advance. I believe the owner served 30 months and was ordered to pay back $10M, although I don't think paying that was possible:

Rare coin dealer pleads guilty in $15 million fraud

A Newport Beach man who was a prominent dealer of rare coins and precious metals pleaded guilty in federal court Thursday to using an online scheme to defraud more than 400 people out of at least $15 million.

www.latimes.com

 

[workinonit]

These companies running these Ponzi schemes typically don't go south at this point in their game. His business was gang busters. Most times they make it on down the road quite a ways before things finally catch up to them. The new building debacle is what brought ole Ted down. Make no mistake that without it he would have still failed but it might have been years from now before it happened.

I've done commercial lending. The bank underwriters look at everything. The collateral will determine the methodology. Most of it is regulated by federal agencies. This applies to this situation and a national news story we cannot discuss.

Apparently whomever was investigating Ted's finances was a horrible investigator. No way anyone with any knowledge at all misses what Ted was doing. He likely had local lenders that would write him a check for whatever he wanted knowing he was good for it.

 

[Sid Post]

He likely had local lenders that would write him a check for whatever he wanted knowing he was good for it.

In rural communities, this happens a lot. In fact, it is how local business is successful in many cases.

For example, your pickup is a total loss but, it is Summer so you need it to till the fields and plant crops and won't have money to pay for it until harvest next year. Yes, there is a loss of crop risk but, that is how a lot of business is, or at least was done before corporate farming.

As long as your reputation is good and you are a long standing member of the community, "handshake" deals like this were pretty common.

If Ted really was running a Ponzi scheme, I hope the creditors take his home and cars away and leave him with nothing of his ill-gotten gains.

Also, regarding the new fabrication building, that was financed by Fidelity so, not a local "good old boy" network issue.

 

[plowhog]

Apparently whomever was investigating Ted's finances was a horrible investigator.

There is so much that is unknown. Much likely only known by the owner.

I ran a successful business for decades with a strong balance sheet and long history of profits. Rarely used lending. But each time I did seek or need a loan, I was required to put personal assets up for collateral. Enough personal assets to guarantee the loan if the business failed.

If the owner's residence is a $5M+ property, there is some collateral there even if it was financed. And if the owner could afford such a residence, there may be other collateral that could provide some security. Time will tell.

 

[Bobctat2035]

As someone who runs an e-commerce business, let me explain something to all of you who can't grasp the concept of a company requiring up front payment.

If you purchase an item from my website (custom or not) and I ship it to you without payment....there is literally nothing I can do to force you to pay me short of suing you. If you're down the street, no problem. If you're 2000 miles cross country...this is a problem. Multiply this times 50 orders a day across the entire country? Right. This is why 0% of the websites you order from will ship without payment.

You might argue "Well gee I shouldn't have to pay until it ships at least" and yes that is possible but what happens is we make this $5000 custom item for you and in three months later when it's completed we say "Ok, ready to ship. Pay me" and Mr. Customer
A: Doesn't respond in a timely fashion with payment so we're left dealing with said custom item packed and ready taking up space
B: Customer forgot about it and changes needed to be made / needs to cancel
C: Customer blew all their money on hookers and blow, maxed out their credit card and can't afford to pay anymore

It is FAR simpler for literally everyone involved to simply pay upfront like you do countless times on any other ecommerce website on a daily basis. In the end, you can always file a chargeback which is basically 100% foolproof if the company can't prove it shipped your product to your address. If you're using a check / wire / debit card for online purchases then that's your own stupid fault.

I don't condone EA's businesses practices. Personally I thought the guy always came off as kind of a tool in his videos and his responses to reviews and I've personally seen his monstrosity house on Lake Norman which looks like a giant blue turd at all angles. The endless complaints about payment upfront though are completely unfounded and based in total ignorance. Please stop already.

 

[workinonit]

I would speculate that there are very, very few $5K items that you or anyone else orders and pays up front for. Most everything I order charges my card when it ships. And by the way, I don't think Ted made custom implements. So if someone reneged, next man up. Ted's downfall was that he had customers falling all over themselves to send him money for his "far superior" tractor implements and it caught up with him. There are other companies making things as good or maybe better than Ted did and you don't have to send them money to hold for 6 months.

I just ordered $3K worth of fence wire from Deer Busters. It was picked up that day by SAIA and then they charged my card. Funny how that works.

 

[D&D]

If you purchase an item from my website (custom or not) and I ship it to you without payment....there is literally nothing I can do to force you to pay me short of suing you.

The endless complaints about payment upfront though are completely unfounded and based in total ignorance. Please stop already.

A) These are not custom order items, otherwise I agree.

B) selling inventory that you don’t have and requiring payment upfront is bad business, period. Does not matter what you’re selling

when’s the last time you hired a contractor to build a house or do some repair work? Did they require payment in full, upfront? Did you hire them?

 

[Bobctat2035]

A) These are not custom order items, otherwise I agree.

B) selling inventory that you don’t have and requiring payment upfront is bad business, period. Does not matter what you’re selling

when’s the last time you hired a contractor to build a house or do some repair work? Did they require payment in full, upfront? Did you hire them?

Custom and made to order are one in the same. If you order a specific implement for a specific machine that is not sitting around as inventory then it is made to order. If and when you cancel your order they now have to store this product until the right person comes along and purchases it. When you're offering hundreds or thousands of variations of products, it can be a long time before someone orders that specific product again.

A contractor working on your home is apples to oranges. If a contractor does work on your home without getting paid it's easy for them to sue you for payment or put a lien on your house. It's not so simple when the customer lives 1000 miles away. You going to spend all your time flying around the country to sit in small claims courts because "It's bad business" to require payment up front? I don't think so. There are a billion transactions online everyday with people paying up front with very few issues.

 

[D&D]

Custom and made to order are one in the same.

yes, nothing EA made was custom or made to order. They were all stock orders.

What does your e-commerce site sell? Let’s see if we can make an apples to apples comp. Do you charge any customer accounts today and wait months to ship for back orders?

 

[MattB4]

As someone who runs an e-commerce business, let me explain something to all of you who can't grasp the concept of a company requiring up front payment.

If you purchase an item from my website (custom or not) and I ship it to you without payment....there is literally nothing I can do to force you to pay me short of suing you. If you're down the street, no problem. If you're 2000 miles cross country...this is a problem. Multiply this times 50 orders a day across the entire country? Right. This is why 0% of the websites you order from will ship without payment.

You might argue "Well gee I shouldn't have to pay until it ships at least" and yes that is possible but what happens is we make this $5000 custom item for you and in three months later when it's completed we say "Ok, ready to ship. Pay me" and Mr. Customer
A: Doesn't respond in a timely fashion with payment so we're left dealing with said custom item packed and ready taking up space
B: Customer forgot about it and changes needed to be made / needs to cancel
C: Customer blew all their money on hookers and blow, maxed out their credit card and can't afford to pay anymore

It is FAR simpler for literally everyone involved to simply pay upfront like you do countless times on any other ecommerce website on a daily basis. In the end, you can always file a chargeback which is basically 100% foolproof if the company can't prove it shipped your product to your address. If you're using a check / wire / debit card for online purchases then that's your own stupid fault.

I don't condone EA's businesses practices. Personally I thought the guy always came off as kind of a tool in his videos and his responses to reviews and I've personally seen his monstrosity house on Lake Norman which looks like a giant blue turd at all angles. The endless complaints about payment upfront though are completely unfounded and based in total ignorance. Please stop already.

Sorry but your statement is why I would not deal with your business. Payment for custom items is a far cry from catalog items (items that you list everyday). On line purchases are back dropped by a CC (ability to pay with a pending amount on credit card) rung up. At real time of shipment that turns into a CC charge. With CC bills the customer has dispute charge in a reasonable time period ability. EA's billing so far ahead of delivery was a disaster waiting to occur for the purchaser.

One reason I prefer Amazon is they do not convert the pending charge to an actual charge until shipping occurs. Those companies that make up a shipping label but do not ship like you find all over the net are not any different than this EA. Once they get your money they do not feel any more obligation to provide a product.

 

[Sid Post]

As someone who runs an e-commerce business, let me explain something to all of you who can't grasp the concept of a company requiring up front payment.

If you purchase an item from my website (custom or not) and I ship it to you without payment....there is literally nothing I can do to force you to pay me short of suing you. If you're down the street, no problem. If you're 2000 miles cross country...this is a problem. Multiply this times 50 orders a day across the entire country? Right. This is why 0% of the websites you order from will ship without payment.

You might argue "Well gee I shouldn't have to pay until it ships at least" and yes that is possible but what happens is we make this $5000 custom item for you and in three months later when it's completed we say "Ok, ready to ship. Pay me" and Mr. Customer
A: Doesn't respond in a timely fashion with payment so we're left dealing with said custom item packed and ready taking up space
B: Customer forgot about it and changes needed to be made / needs to cancel
C: Customer blew all their money on hookers and blow, maxed out their credit card and can't afford to pay anymore

It is FAR simpler for literally everyone involved to simply pay upfront like you do countless times on any other ecommerce website on a daily basis. In the end, you can always file a chargeback which is basically 100% foolproof if the company can't prove it shipped your product to your address. If you're using a check / wire / debit card for online purchases then that's your own stupid fault.

I don't condone EA's businesses practices. Personally I thought the guy always came off as kind of a tool in his videos and his responses to reviews and I've personally seen his monstrosity house on Lake Norman which looks like a giant blue turd at all angles. The endless complaints about payment upfront though are completely unfounded and based in total ignorance. Please stop already.

Let post this with a slightly different view as I was not an e-commerce retailer.

A calls and wants a custom 1911 pistol (I was an FFL dealing with high-end pistols). First, I ask if he can wait 3+ years for his pistol to build when it is one of the big name guild pistolsmiths. Yes, okay step 1.

Step 2 was a partial payment upfront so I could sell this customer's pistol at a net cost to me to recoup my funds. The weirder or more specialized this pistol was, the higher the deposit became.

In ~3 years, I had people die, get married, have a first child, etc. And a few simply flaked out and ghosted me.

When I had something in stock, it was always 100% paid for before shipping.

Full payment upfront for a product not in stock always makes me nervous. Paying a reasonable deposit generally does not.

 

[deezler]

I don't condone EA's businesses practices. Personally I thought the guy always came off as kind of a tool in his videos and his responses to reviews and I've personally seen his monstrosity house on Lake Norman which looks like a giant blue turd at all angles. The endless complaints about payment upfront though are completely unfounded and based in total ignorance. Please stop already.

You're missing the nuance here.

Requiring payment up front is completely legitimate - for a legitimate business that produces and ships product in a timely manner.

The shady part about Everything Attachments requiring payment up front during the last two-three years, is that they would not even start making your ordered piece of equipment for MONTHS after taking your money to spend elsewhere.

 

[MossRoad]

As I drove by Tractor Supply or Rural King this weekend and saw many dozens of brand new implements sitting in their parking lots, I thought about this thread.

 

[Bobctat2035]

I would speculate that there are very, very few $5K items that you or anyone else orders and pays up front for.
I just ordered $3K worth of fence wire from Deer Busters. It was picked up that day by SAIA and then they charged my card. Funny how that works.

We literally do it every day. I'm speaking from direct experience, not speculation. I've been in business for 20 years and have been running it like this since day one. We also do not take orders over 10k via credit card because of the fraud liability so we regularly get wire transfers from our customers. None of our customers have issues with payment up front. Maybe it's because our website doesn't say "Theres a good chance Imma run off with your cash" like EA's circa 1998 website does. Or maybe it's our spotless 4.9 star Google review reputation that reassures customers we're not scammers. Or maybe it's because our clients aren't stuck in the 1970s. Who knows?

Yes because it's an in stock item. Not something that Deer Busters personally hand crafted in a warehouse in North Carolina specifically for you. If they had to special order something they don't typically stock specifically for you, I guarantee you they would charge you before hand.

 

[jmc]

Off topic alert:

Decades ago, I went to an auction of a small manufacturing business bankruptcy- selling it lock, stock, and barrel, one lot at a time. They made surgical instruments- often large government orders. Some of the failed partners were there, selectively buying things.

One lot was trays of semi-finished instruments with a junk radio stacked on top. Auctioneer starts out low, assuming he was selling the radio. Not his first rodeo, he notice all the interest in that radio and started jumping bids $10 at a time and eventually, maybe $100 at a time. One of the bidders was the failed partners. I think that lot went for thousands of dollars.

Turns out, the failed partners had found another investor for a new venture and hoped to buy those semi-finished parts on the cheap, finish them out, and (probably) fulfill the original order. IOW, almost pure gravy.

Their problem was, a competitor showed up who also knew the story. As the bidding played out, it seemed more like a grudge match.

Small town where most people knew each other. Word was that those partners had a pattern of filing bankruptcy, finding a new backer, and resume where they left off, free of debt.

 

[plowhog]

The endless complaints about payment upfront though are completely unfounded and based in total ignorance. Please stop already.

Glad to learn no one lost any money.

 

[MattB4]

... None of our customers have issues with payment up front. Maybe it's because our website doesn't say "Theres a good chance Imma run off with your cash" like EA's circa 1998 website does. Or maybe it's our spotless 4.9 star Google review reputation that reassures customers we're not scammers. Or maybe it's because our clients aren't stuck in the 1970s. Who knows?

...

I am willing to wager you that some of your customers do have qualms about payment up front. Your sterling reputation might help them overcome it. However I will say this about reputations, they are only as good as the last fulfilled order.

There is a ring instruction in Boxing, "Protect yourself at all times."

 

[Bobctat2035]

yes, nothing EA made was custom or made to order. They were all stock orders.

What does your e-commerce site sell? Let’s see if we can make an apples to apples comp. Do you charge any customer accounts today and wait months to ship for back orders?

Custom / Semi Custom furniture and display products. Some more popular items / sizes are premade and ready to ship but those products are listed as such. If those common items are not already in stock, they will share the same lead time as a custom made item.

Our lead time is currently weeks, not months but during the pandemic, some of our products had a 3-4 month wait. So yes, we did. No complaints because most people understand how e-commerce shopping works.

We are about as a direct comparison to EA as it gets without being an actual implement manufacture. I even have a house on the same lake. The difference is I haven't run my company into the dumper with tons of poor financial decisions. I would sell my house, boat and jet skis before I had to lay off any employees.

 

[workinonit]

We literally do it every day. I'm speaking from direct experience, not speculation. I've been in business for 20 years and have been running it like this since day one. We also do not take orders over 10k via credit card because of the fraud liability so we regularly get wire transfers from our customers. None of our customers have issues with payment up front. Maybe it's because our website doesn't say "Theres a good chance Imma run off with your cash" like EA's circa 1998 website does. Or maybe it's our spotless 4.9 star Google review reputation that reassures customers we're not scammers. Or maybe it's because our clients aren't stuck in the 1970s. Who knows?

Yes because it's an in stock item. Not something that Deer Busters personally hand crafted in a warehouse in North Carolina specifically for you. If they had to special order something they don't typically stock specifically for you, I guarantee you they would charge you before hand.

They didn't handcraft things specifically for anyone. they made the same item for anyone who ordered it. The reason it was "handcrafted specifically for you" is because they were 6 months behind on manufacturing and when an item was made it shipped out to the customer. If you can do that and get away with it then more power to you. If it's a specialty item, I get it.