Stick welding practice?

[ChristianHF]

Looking for a little advice from the stick welders in the group. I have a Longevity Mig/Stick combo machine. I have played with the Mig side but to date hadn't done anything with stick. I stopped by the LWS and got some 3/32 6011 and a few other odds and ends with the intent of getting some seat time. I didn't get much practice time this weekend but what I did wasn't very productive. I found these rods to burn very fast, which makes the whole feeding the stick in and dragging thing a little fast paced for learning.

My question is this, is there a better diameter of rod or a better rod type to learn with? I have no doubt I will use the 6011 at some point so I am not disappointed I bought it, but I think things are just happening too fast for me to really get the hang of it. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Chris.

 

[Danno1]

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6013 would be easier. Also try 7018, 7014, 7024.



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[k0ua]

Chris it does seem that way at first. If your results were long and stringy, and not nice fat "caterpillars" you were probably moving too fast, which is a common mistake for new guys just starting in stick welding. Part of it is watching the puddle, and part of it is listening not watching the arc. The feeding the stick in thing, is not something you watch, it is something you listen for and feel. The stick feeding will become automatic pretty soon. I like 7018 but there are problems with restrikes on it. Hard to get lit if you stop from the first arc strike without breaking off the "corn" or little flux piece that forms on the end of the rod. There are several ways to overcome that, but for newcomers it can be a little frustrating. But it does make for nice beads, better looking than 6011 as it doesn't freeze as fast, and if you are set up right, the flux will curl up by itself and be very easy to remove. Look at it this way, you are starting to do something that requires coordination, correct travel speed, correct angle of the rod, correct feed rate of rod into puddle, all the while trying to follow the joint or even to put metal/heat on one side of the joint more the other. All of this can seem daunting at first.. but with practice it does get easier, and you don't need to be a genius (look at me I can do it.. sort of ) to do this, just practice. Keep at it and don't give up.. The reason you see so many used stick welders for sale, is because guys spend 20 minutes, trying to weld, and say "this is for the birds" "I can't do this".. well if you think that, then you never will be able to weld.. You just gotta keep at it. and you will get better and better. In my opinion 3/32 rods and 6011 are as good to learn on as any, maybe better than some. The welds might not be the prettiest but they are usually strong, as 6011 is a deep penetrator. Keep at it.

James K0UA

 

[gwdixon]

I would rate 6011 as a hard rod to learn on. There is the obvious sticking issue. Then there is the requirement to hold the tip of the rod just off the work or risk "long arching" which burns up the rod very quickly. Sparklers and BBs go everywhere. It has to be run at the right amps to get a good bead or the bead looks like a mutated worm. That said, it is a great rod for penetration and as a "base coat" once its tendencies are mastered.

If just learning my recommendation would be 1/8" 7014 run at 120 to 130 amps on 1/4"+ metal. There is much less sticking. The rod can be run resting on the work at a slight drag angle. It makes a very pretty bead unless you travel too fast. It can be easily "weaved" (sort of a Z pattern). It is far more forgiving than 6011. Restarts are easy. 7014 is a good practice rod before moving on to 7018 if that is your choice.

 

[Shield Arc]

I'm new to this stick welding game myself. Personally I think you would have better luck starting with 5/32-inch 6011. I really like Hobart's 335A 6011. Reason I say 5/32" rod. It is a lot easier to see the ripples than with 3/32-inch rod. I also believe people run 6010 / 6011 too hot, you have to find the sweet spot for amps, once you do that it is easy to get the stack of dimes look. Here is a 5/32-inch 6010 hot pass on a piece of pipe.

 

[bigdeano]

I second the choice of 1/8 7014. Very easy to use. 6011 is difficult, especially for a beginner. I rarely use it except as a last resort.

 

[cowski]

1/8 6011 might as well learn on the most farm useful .

 

[cqaigy2]

6011 is usually my choice, partly because it's usually what i have available and i use mostly salvage metal, but 6013 or 7014 lay a nice bead. Can't really add anything to James description and it is nice when you get things right and watch the slag curl up.

 

[ChristianHF]

Burned about a pound of the 6011 tonight and am feeling a little better about it. I will have to get a box of 7014 to play around with this week. Played a bit with rod angle, travel speed, etc. going to have to go back and watch Jody's videos to pick up some more pointers. Thanks everyone for the suggestions, I can see this is going to be practice, practice, practice....

Chris

 

[k0ua]

Burned about a pound of the 6011 tonight and am feeling a little better about it. I will have to get a box of 7014 to play around with this week. Played a bit with rod angle, travel speed, etc. going to have to go back and watch Jody's videos to pick up some more pointers. Thanks everyone for the suggestions, I can see this is going to be practice, practice, practice....

Chris

See you are already doing better.:thumbsup: 7014 does run nice.. but you have to move a bit faster as it is a fast rod, and it lays down a lot of metal in a hurry as the flux has metal powder in it. But it is easy to run and the beads will look better than 6011. 7018 is still my favorite though.

James K0UA

 

[Arc weld]

6011 requires a little more advanced technique to use properly. 6013 is a garbage rod for all intents and purposes. You have a good welder, you don't need to buy the cheap, easy to use rods. 7014 is a much better choice and often even easier to use. One mistake a lot of beginners make is watching the slag form instead of watching what the puddle does. A 1/8" 7018 should burn about 6" long doing beads on a flat plate. Make 2 soapstone lines about 3/8" apart and try to put the bead down the middle of them. 7014 will burn a little longer than 7018. Once you get the hang of 7014, learn how to burn 7018. It is the gop to rod if you want something strong. 6010/6011 is also good for dirty steel or where you need good penetration. It is common to start with a 6010 and after cleaning it, go over it with a second pass using 7018.

 

[yomax4]

Doesn't the Longevity have Hot Stort and Arc Force? If it does you should have no Re-Strike or Sticking issues if you have them set. They will help you a lot.

 

[Ken45101]

You may be running the rod too hot, that's easy to do with 3/32 6011. Yes, 3/32 will not put down a lot of metal. Do not weave it wide. Close, narrow weave or small tight circles.

I agree, 1/8" rod is easier and 7014 is a nice rod too. 6013 is easy to get pretty welds but doesn't seem to have much penetration and I don't trust it where I need any strength, but then I'm new at stick welding too. 6013 can be good for practice on scrap ;-)

 

[ChristianHF]

Got some 7018 tonight a ran a few beads, most all of this mess is 7018 beads. Its covering the 6011 practice from last night. The last bead down at the bottom edge of the material is 6011 done tonight. Not terribly proud but I am getting the hang of it, kinda.

Chris.

 

[Tallman]

Keep practicing it will com to you. I see improvement already. I welded for a living in a valve shop. Like everyone says practice, practice and practice. After a while you will get the hang of it.
Ken

 

[bigdeano]

Those are nice looking welds. Looks like you're ready to build something.

 

[ericher69]

Got some 7018 tonight a ran a few beads, most all of this mess is 7018 beads. Its covering the 6011 practice from last night. The last bead down at the bottom edge of the material is 6011 done tonight. Not terribly proud but I am getting the hang of it, kinda.

Chris.

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=323520"/>

Getting there but seems like you are traveling too fast.

Are you just dragging the rod or trying any type of pattern?

Also practice on a lap joint; laying flat beads on plate can be discouraging at first

 

[Arc weld]

Running beads is a good way to learn. Make some lines with soapstone to help keep you straight. Then you can practice making a pad of weld with each bead overlapping the last one a little less than half. There should be no valleys between the beads. Just random welding a piece of scrap doesn't teach you much. A good rule of thumb for the correct speed with 7018 and 7014 is that if the ripples in the bead are pointed, you're going too fast and trying to pull the weld. The ripples should be more rounded. At higher amps with more experience and on certain projects, you will go faster and have more pointed ripples. For just beginning try to get the bead an even width the whole length with more rounded ripples. Going too slow will have the ripples too close together and have too much build up. You'll figure it out with practice. For a newbie, there's nothing wrong with your 7018 at all. Just go in a straight line with no weaving or anything else. 6010/6011 uses a back and forth whipping motion but get the hang of welding first before you try that or it might be frustrating for you.

 

[ChristianHF]

All of the 7018 practice beads were run just dragging, basically keeping the rod tip buried in the puddle and letting the rod collapse with a 20 degree or so drag angle to set my travel speed. Same with the 6011, haven't tried whipping it yet but some more simple dragging is still in order to get the hang of it. Thanks for the words of encouragement and my next attempt at a pad of beads will be a little more straight and orderly.

 

[gwdixon]

All of the 7018 practice beads were run just dragging, basically keeping the rod tip buried in the puddle and letting the rod collapse with a 20 degree or so drag angle to set my travel speed. Same with the 6011, haven't tried whipping it yet but some more simple dragging is still in order to get the hang of it. Thanks for the words of encouragement and my next attempt at a pad of beads will be a little more straight and orderly.

Try a few beads with less angle - say 5* to 10*. Too great of an angle will actually blow the puddle away from the rod making pointed "dimes". The other thing that happens is the bead builds up too high (unless that is what you want).

Using a nearly vertical angle will result in a nice, relatively flat, look to the bead.

The more you experiment the more you will learn.