Stopping weeds in the "garden" -- Preen?

[nmu98]

I have spent the majority of the week after work trying to get all the weeds out of the pumkins, beans, sweet corn and red beats. The pumkins were the worst because there are over 300 plants, but the other stuff was not far behind. This year has been the worst we have had with weeds due to the wet and hot weather.

So, I am thinking of trying to use some sort of weed preventer untill they make all my garden "field" stuff round up resistant like our other crops.... I was thinking of preen, albeit expensive for the amount I need, it would allow me more time to work on the money makers.

What chemicals do you guys use?

 

[955er]

Preen works, but only stops weeds from germinating. It wont stop any active grass roots from growing. I have a small honda cultivator that I use between rows and plants. If you have grass growing, and have enough room, it is good to hit the areas between with round up.

If you use preen, get the type with fertilizer.

 

[nmu98]

The issue I have is not being able to get close witht he tiller and I have 8 acres to take care of. What I need is something to stop the weeds that come up after the crop has started, but I do not want it to hurt the crop.

The weeds were so think, that we had to pull most of them out by hand because they were so tight in the row with the crops. Also, once the pumkins get larger, there is no way to til them.

 

[dmccarty]

I just spent seven hours picking weeds out of our garden and it is only 25x50. I was feeling your pain Monday and Tuesday after weeding on Saturday and replanting on Sunday.

I bought a weed burner in the spring to try to get ahead of the weeds. Unfortunately the weeds I wanted to burn had seeds the popped off the plant as soon as the flames hit the weed. And it was too dry to use the burner.

I am going to try to burn out the weeds between the rows but that is not going to get everything if it works as all. I still will have to weed by hand.

Hand weeding is good exercise. Its cheaper than joining a gym. And you get veggies in all summer. :thumbsup: So it save you money twice over and gets you exercise.

That is my Rationalization for having a garden.

Later,
Dan

 

[bp fick]

I hesitate to post on this, but offer a few friendly suggestions. Prevention is worth 10 pounds of cure.

Weeds come from somewhere, as the soil doesn't continue to sprout them out of thin air. Tilling a patch, once a month, for a year, in advance of garden planting allows for the resident weeds to sprout, get tilled, more to sprout, then tilled, and so on. The following year will see very few weeds in the patch as the resident seed will have been sprouted and destroyed.

The vast majority of weeds are introduced to the garden by importing manure, lawn clippings (which are full of weed seed) and so forth. It takes heat, lots of it, in the compost pile to kills weeds and compost isn't garden ready for up to 3 years. Few people are patient enough.

Many folks do not allow wide enough rows for mid row tilling during the growing season, making weeding much too difficult. If the garden is too small for proper row tilling, then planting through plastic or matting is another good way.

Gardening is supposed to have some hard work, but not that hard, but also fun and very rewarding and good for the soul. Here's to hoping things are more fun for you in the future!!
Best regards

 

[charlz]

I tried plastic on some rows this year. So far so good. I am getting some weeds in the dirt holding the edges down. I could risk spraying there but I am thinking of using a 'weed wiper' which would let me do the job quickly and not have to worry about overspray or drift.

This presentation, while hard to read, lists some pre-emergents for seeded pumpkins:

THE EFFECT OF HERBICIDES AND PLASTIC MULCH ON PUMPKINS

Maybe you can email the guy and get a better copy of the presentation.

 

[clemsonfor]

The issue I have is not being able to get close witht he tiller and I have 8 acres to take care of. What I need is something to stop the weeds that come up after the crop has started, but I do not want it to hurt the crop.

The weeds were so think, that we had to pull most of them out by hand because they were so tight in the row with the crops. Also, once the pumkins get larger, there is no way to til them.

How can you pull out 7 acres of weeds by hand? after doing 2 acres they firt part would be just as big. HOeing maybe a diff story. Im with BP. I would spray the whole garden with glyphosate this fall and then repsray lightly, then 10 days later till the whole thing under. and then till againg like bp mentioned as early as you can get into the garden in the spring so that you can allow to sprout then till again before planting.

 

[bp fick]

Hmmmm..... I don't use any chemicals, but then again, I am organic, so I cannot and still market my stuff under contract. (no preen, no round up, no pesticides, no Seven, no chemical fertilizers. Nothing)

100 square feet or 100 acres, the principles remain the same. Weeds can be mastered. In the photos I posted above, that patch was brand new this year. It is 150 feet long by over 60 feet wide, or almost 1/4 acre.

I "pre-tilled" for a year before planting. (see photos from last year) I imported no grass clippings, no foreign compost or manure. It is almost totally weed free.

On another garden of similar size, I got in a hurry last year when we took possession of the property. I put manure on from a neighbor's horse farm. HUGE mistake, and one I won't repeat anytime soon. It was not aged at a hot enough temperature for long enough. I loved the carbon of the manure and had to have it, but I shall be fighting weeds for a few years because of it. Hopefully, by next year, I'll have them licked.

 

[clemsonfor]

BP, Whats the white twin bed for under the powerline in the last photo? Also are you using a bottom plow for those pics? Who do you sell to? Local supermarkets?

 

[bp fick]

Neighbor's old white bed. Used to feed deer. NOT ANY MORE!!
I used an inexpensive middle buster from TSC. It works just fine. Dig 'taters too! I market through 2 local co-ops and retail at farmers markets.

 

[MMagis]

The idea that regular tilling of soil will greatly reduce weeds over time is a nice theory. It’s not true, but it sounds good. I’ve had my garden in the same spot for years, and after two weeks it can almost blend into my yard. There will always be weeds. With an area that large, how about applying a pre-emergent herbicide before planting?

 

[bp fick]

The idea that regular tilling of soil will greatly reduce weeds over time is a nice theory. It痴 not true, but it sounds good. I致e had my garden in the same spot for years, and after two weeks it can almost blend into my yard. There will always be weeds. With an area that large, how about applying a pre-emergent herbicide before planting?

Bulletin from Ohio State University (THE Ohio State University) states that good management and tilling practices are essential for weed control.
Weed Control Principles: Cultural And Mechanical(Nonchemical) Weed Control

 

[lakngulf]

Tilling/Plowing/Turning Soil Continuously does reduce weeds. Those little seeds are some persistent critters. They can lie dormant for years, then you turn the soil a bit, they get some light, water and warmth---and you've got weeds. Weed free---that may be a stretch bp.

For the last three years I have used the Preen product---not sure which one other than a roll I bought at Sam's. I did not know one had fertlizer in it. I have reused it now on it's third year. I would plant the garden, then lay the preen alongside the plants, sometimes cutting a slit so the preen could surround the plant. It does not eliminate weeds but it does help. Reduces the weeds i have to pull by hand to those in the row with the garden plants.

Next year I am looking at a better alternative, especially for tomatoes--mound the row, dig the holes where the maters will be planted (I plant them deep), lay the preen on top of the row, find the pre-dug holes, cut an x in the preen, plant the mater, adding fresh top soil as I will not have access to the soil underneath. I am hoping this will help with Early Blight as well, since the plants will not have ground contact.

What do you think?

 

[dmccarty]

I used black mesh weed blocker last year in the garden for weed control. I used it so that the rain would have a chance of watering the plants. This part worked.

Keeping out weeds? Kinda. Sorta.

The nut grass just poke up through the weed blocker as did a few other types of weeds. Maybe thicker black plastic would work better but I won't be using either wee blocker. The stuff is just a pain.

I put wood ashes on the garden during the winter. And I don't clean up the garden until near planting time so the weed blocker was in the way of the ashes. Trying to remove the weed blocker just rips it so it cannot be saved so it costs more money every year. I would rather buy mulch. Also the fabric pins they sell to hold down the weed block are expensive and rust.

But I have a solution for the expensive rusting fabric pins. I have a spool of HT wire. I cut it to maybe 12 inchs long and then bent the wire into big pins. These hold the fabric better. Don't rust. And last. The store bought pins are rusted while the pins I made are just fine.

So if you want to use weed blocker try to make your own pins if you have some HT wire handy.

Later,
Dan

 

[MMagis]

Your evidence for that statement is your own weed choked garden?
Good management practices are too often ignored while chemical solutions are always seemingly touted as quick solutions. If your garden is choked with weeds every year, continuing to do the same thing over and over will only bring the same results. But hey, do as you wish and good luck with that, as it appears to be working well for you. It's a mostly free country.

Bulletin from Ohio State University (THE Ohio State University) states that good management and tilling practices are essential for weed control.
Weed Control Principles: Cultural And Mechanical(Nonchemical) Weed Control

What the heck are you talking about? I thought I made it clear, but maybe not. I practice EXACTLY what you claimed would result in fewer weeds. Every single time the soil is disturbed, buried seeds are brought up and they germinate. This isn't my opinion based on my poor gardening practices. This is the way it is. I'm not sure if you just think you're an expert, or if you actually are. But, I can say for certain that your advice in this instance won't alwyas work. Sorry to burst your bubble, that wasn't my intention.

 

[bp fick]

What the heck are you talking about? I thought I made it clear, but maybe not. I practice EXACTLY what you claimed would result in fewer weeds. Every single time the soil is disturbed, buried seeds are brought up and they germinate. This isn't my opinion based on my poor gardening practices. This is the way it is. I'm not sure if you just think you're an expert, or if you actually are. But, I can say for certain that your advice in this instance won't alwyas work. Sorry to burst your bubble, that wasn't my intention.

MMagis - First, accept my apology for my terse reply. Sincerely. It was not called for. I am the least of any expert.

Second, yes, of course tilling brings weeds to the surface, where they sprout. That is exactly the point of pre-tilling for year, as mentioned earlier. Till, let weeds sprout, till, let weeds sprout. Monthly cycle. This would be a fallow year, not a productive year.

lakngulf -Will there ever be such a thing as weed free? Heavens no. Never wished to say that or leave that impression. It would even be unbiblical!!

But, good management practices can make a garden very, very clean. That OSU article suggests many practices to incorporate, not just tilling.

Again, MMages - please forgive. My comments were uncalled for.

 

[nmu98]

This 8 acres is surrounded by wood and alfalfa/clover. Keeping out the alfalfa and clover is hard enough. The grass seeds just blow in and I am sure birds bring them in also. This year was the first year it was so bad. I could not get close enough with the tiller to get the weeds. They were right in the rows. It was horrible and i would really like to find something that would work with this much acreage. A good pre-emergant would be great. I will have to read up on it as to when to put it down.

I spray round up and till all summer. This is not due to lack of cleaning!

 

[MMagis]

Again, MMages - please forgive. My comments were uncalled for.

No big deal at all.
I should have worded my reply better. Repeated tilling CAN cetainly help, and help a lot in some cases. I used the same practice to establish a clover field and it turned out nice over time. But with my garden, my goodness, nothing seems to help. I must have an endless supply of thistle seeds in there. I've tilled it probably 8-10 times per year for the last 5-7 years. They just keep on coming.

 

[Chuck52]

In past years, I've had really good luck by putting down several layers of newspaper around my tomato plants. The problem arises about what to use to hold the paper in place. What I did then was use dry grass clippings to cover the newspaper. That was really great, for that year. The weeds around the tomatoes were greatly reduced. However, the next year all the weed seeds I introduced with the grass clippings came up. The newspaper does work very well, if you've got something weed free to hold it down. Then at the end of the season you just till all that stuff in. This year I'm using shredded paper from the office around my tomatoes. It clings together like straw and does a pretty good job of keeping the weeds down and minimizing the mud splash on the plants. Plus it's a lot easier to add around the plants after they are already caged that the sheets of newspaper would have been.

My garden is only about 60x70 feet or so, and most of that is in raised beds made with concrete blocks. I'm lucky if I manage to just keep the weeds from going to seed. I also have lots of grass in the raised beds that apparently comes back from the roots. I think if I were retired and could spend a few hours every day weeding I'd get it cleaned up, and in about 5-6 years I may get to test that theory!

Chuck

 

[charlz]

The best I have used for mulch is leaves, the ones you vacuum up in the fall and have pretty much zero grass so little weed seed. This works good in my garlic where the plants are close together and the watering is done via 2' high sprayers. Everything stays heavy and locked together so the wind doesn't blow it away.

In the past when my garden has been totally out of control I have covered the plants with buckets, spray, cover next set of plants, spray etc.This works pretty good. Have to be very conscious that the bucket, wet with herbicide after the first spray doesn't touch the plants as you cover them. Obviously this only works with or when plants are still small.

Where my garden is used to be a weedy corral type area. Very high seed load, would take more than one year to till the weeds out. I have been tilling, burning, spraying and pulling for 5 years (not letting anything go to seed) and there is no apparent lack of weed seeds.

I have thought about trying solarization but not sure if that affects more than the top inch or so.