Stubborn Old Man

[MasseyWV]

Recently, I purchased a Massey 135 tractor to restore, with the ultimate goal of using it to maintain our gravel driveway. The driveway is about 1000 feet long, has a somewhat steep grade, and winds it's way up to our house with one curve that's almost a 90 degree turn. Currently, my tractor is torn down being restored, but when the time comes to begin working on the driveway, I anticipate potential problems with my father-in-law who lives just below us on the same road.

The driveway has suffered repeated problems for years because my father-in-law has this strange notion that a bowl-shaped road is correct. I know for a fact that this is not correct and that the road should be graded with a proper crown so water can flow into the ditches, rather than going down the road and creating washouts. He has two tractors and constantly comblains about water running down the road when it rains, yet does nothing to address the actual problem, despite having been told by many people, including myself, what is wrong and what needs to be done to correct the problem.

My concern is that when my tractor is finished, and I begin working on the road to correct the problems, that he will go right behind me and screw it all up again, or worse yet, a family feud of sorts could erupt. My wife says it will become the "battle of the tractors", something I'd like to avoid. But still, I intend to fix this road and be done with these constant problems, most of which have been caused by poor maintenance.

My father-in-law is one of the most stubborn old men I've ever known, but I'm equally stubborn, if not more so. Does anyone know how I can fix the road, while keeping the peace? Currently, my plan is to just fix the road and let the chips fall where they may, but if there is a better way to handle this, I'd love to know what it is.

 

[rekees4300]

Who owes the driveway? If the driveway belongs to you then fix it anyway you want....end of story. If joint ownership then divide driveway. You do your part your way and he can do his part his way.

 

[Jstpssng]

Who owes the driveway? If the driveway belongs to you then fix it anyway you want....end of story. If joint ownership then divide driveway. You do your part your way and he can do his part his way.

Easy to say... unfortunately when there's family involved things get complicated. You need to decide how much aggravation you can deal with, and explain diplomatially that it's your driveway. thetrouble with older people is that they continue getting older ... at some point we realise that the most important things aren't always being right..
. even when we are.

 

[Egon]

Help tune up the tractors.

 

[rekees4300]

"the road should be graded with a proper crown so water can flow into the ditches,"

I have a 900' gravel driveway so I agree a proper crown will help solve the water problem. Beyond that, you & wife will need to resolve FIL problem.

 

[MasseyWV]

The driveway is jointly owned by both of us, and when family is involved, things can indeed get really complicated in a hurry.

Keeping the peace has always been priority number one, but the road can get pretty bad at times. Something has to be done and leaving it as-is cannot continue because buying gravel to replace that which is washed away is simply getting too expensive. I realize that buying gravel to fix a gravel road is simply part of the territory, but the washouts causing excessive gravel loss could be greatly reduced or eliminated if the road is fixed properly. It's not about being right, it's about fixing the road, nothing more.

For the last few months, I've been "working on him", trying to introduce what I plan to do to the road gradually, allowing him time to get used to the idea, and so it won't be such a shock. While I can't be certain if it's working, I am certain that he is unpredictable and have great concerns as a direct result.

Heck, I've even offered to help him work on his beloved Massey 35 tractor, which smokes like a Malley engine because it has worn valve guides, but he has never taken me up on my offer. What I'm trying to do is use the Massey tractors as a means of connecting with him, rather than a means of "doing battle" with him. Perhaps seeing my Massey 135 restored will change his tune, or it could make him worse. Time will tell.

 

[forgeblast]

The funny thing about stubborn men is they always have a daughter more stubborn then them. (mine is 3!) Have your wife work on him.

 

[MasseyWV]

The funny thing about stubborn men is they always have a daughter more stubborn then them. (mine is 3!) Have your wife work on him.

I know exactly what you mean because my wife is one of the few people on this planet that I'll back down to. When she has her mind made up there's no stopping her, short of knocking her on her tail which probably wouldn't work anyway, but I don't hit women so I back down and let her do her thing.

 

[BleedingOrange]

Figure out what is really important in life, and try to make decisions that won,t have regrets.
How much longer do you figure your FIL will be around, why not let him be in charge of taking care of the driveway, as long as it is passable, and safe, does it really matter ? I wish my stubborn FIL was still around, and I wished I would of been much kinder and more tolerant of his ways when he was around. I still kick myself in the butt for being so stubborn, just as you are being. What else does your FIL have to look forward to, when he gets up each morning ?
And as a doctor once told me when I was trying to help an older person who loved to argue, your wasting your time arguing with them, cause in their mind, they think they are right, as much as you think you are right. As long as it,s not harmful to anyone, why not let them think that for their own well being and self worth ?

 

[chkntrktr]

My FIL was the same way but fortunately I didn't live near him; unfortunately his daughter is like him in a lot of ways but that's another story. You could try bending a piece of cardboard in trough shape and pouring water on it and turn it over the other way and let him see the difference (if that makes sense). May be when he sees how it runs through it one way and off the other way?

Good luck.

 

[MasseyWV]

Figure out what is really important in life, and try to make decisions that won,t have regrets.
How much longer do you figure your FIL will be around, why not let him be in charge of taking care of the driveway, as long as it is passable, and safe, does it really matter ? I wish my stubborn FIL was still around, and I wished I would of been much kinder and more tolerant of his ways when he was around. I still kick myself in the butt for being so stubborn, just as you are being. What else does your FIL have to look forward to, when he gets up each morning ?
And as a doctor once told me when I was trying to help an older person who loved to argue, your wasting your time arguing with them, cause in their mind, they think they are right, as much as you think you are right. As long as it,s not harmful to anyone, why not let them think that for their own well being and self worth ?

I think you've misunderstood the intent of this thread. There has been no arguing, and I have let him have his way all along, simply to keep the peace. My wife is the only one who knows how I feel about the situation, or at least she was until I created this thread. And the term "Stubborn Old Man" was not meant in a derogatory way, it comes from my wife who calls me the same thing, and was meant as more of a description than a label. He is older than me, but in this case, age has nothing to do with it.

He has been in charge of maintaining the driveway for over 10 years, and it only continues to get worse. I have to act or I may eventually be unable to use the driveway to get to my home. Besides, as you pointed out, he is getting older, and this is as much to take the burden (or some of it) off him, as it is to simply get the road fixed.

 

[joshuabardwell]

This may not be your preferred way of handling things, but it's one approach, and I'm just throwing it out. If the issue is, at least in part, that you don't want to be buying the gravel, you could tell him, as politely and respectfully as possible, that you disagree with the way the road is being maintained, and you think your way would result in less runoff. Maybe you could bet him that you can save money in gravel doing it your way, if he lets you do it that way for a year. Make it kind of a friendly competition thing. Or, if you wanted to take more of a hard line, you could just say that you think the gravel bill is excessive, and if he insists on grading it that way, you're going to let him pick up the excess.

 

[samandmax]

Ask you fil about having a "professional" look at the driveway and get their opinion on what would solve your washout problems. Try to get a older man who is a escavator or one that installs driveways. A third party will leave you out of it.

 

[samandmax]

Ask you fil about having a "professional" look at the driveway and get their opinion on what would solve your washout problems. Try to get a older man around your fils age who is a excavator or one that installs driveways. A third party will leave you out of it.

 

[Depmandog]

Tell FIL that you want to help out with the drive, and you will be responsible from his place to your house, and he has from his house to the road. After you get yours part all slicked up to your liking - perhaps he will realize that you are right after watching how your section holds up and his continues to deteriorate.

I understand your situation completely. My FIL sounds a lot like yours. Hard headed is an understatement. But as he ages, it has become easier to go against his wishes. I now usually just laugh and tell him he is losing it and do things my way. He grumbles and then tells me that's how he has always done it - or that it was his idea to start with. I always agree and give him that

Good luck.

 

[Lava Rancher]

Loosen the oil plug on his tractor??!! Kidding of course. Hard nut to crack but I'd just volunteer to take on the driveway and wait and see what happens.

 

[mvwicker]

Pave the driveway? Then you could do it European style, with the gutter down the middle and drains at the low spots.

 

[MasseyWV]

Tell FIL that you want to help out with the drive, and you will be responsible from his place to your house, and he has from his house to the road. After you get yours part all slicked up to your liking - perhaps he will realize that you are right after watching how your section holds up and his continues to deteriorate.

I understand your situation completely. My FIL sounds a lot like yours. Hard headed is an understatement. But as he ages, it has become easier to go against his wishes. I now usually just laugh and tell him he is losing it and do things my way. He grumbles and then tells me that's how he has always done it - or that it was his idea to start with. I always agree and give him that

Good luck.

Your suggestion is very close to what I've been thinking of doing. I would begin by working on "my part", then gradually working my way down to "his part" after he has had some time to see how much better "my part" holds up. As it is, it will take a lot of time to get the driveway back into shape because parts of it are completely graded wrong, so there will be plenty of time to allow him to adjust to the changes, as they occur.

While there is not really a "his part" and "my part" of the driveway, he almost never did anything to the driveway above his house. In other words, if he didn't drive on it, he didn't work on it. And making matters worse is that in more than 10 years, he has bought 1 load of gravel, which only went on his part. Yet in that same 10 year span, I've bought countless loads of gravel, and we're not talking about small loads here, I order no less than 20 tons at a time, which is delivered in tri-axle dump trucks.

Being hard-headed describes him perfectly. Over time, I've begun to notice that if something is done that he doesn't agree with, and it turns out good, he suddenly changes his tune, almost as if it was his idea to begin with. One example was the time when we had a leak in our water line that runs parallel to the driveway. I told him that finding the leak would be easy if I placed some bright red food-safe dye in the water line at the meter and watched for it to come out of the ground to locate the leak. He swore up and down that I was wasting my time, and insisted that I'd have to dig up most of the line to find it. Say what? I don't think so, not when a much easier solution exists. Needless to say, he was singing a different tune when I had found the leak within 5 minutes of putting the dye in the line and turning the water on.

Hopefully, he will see the light after I've begun fixing the driveway, the right way. If not, I guess that we're gonna have us a family feud. Sorry, but I couldn't resist saying that.

 

[Depmandog]

I recall the first time we butted heads (my FIL and me), back when my wife and I were dating. FIL and his FIL were jointly farming, and I was there to drive a grain truck, helping out on the weekend when I was back in town (like any good future son-in-law should do).

Well the combine breaks down - and I know nothing about repairing the combine. FIL is fiddle "tooting" around trying to get a chain back on. I offer to help several times - and am told in no uncertain terms that I didn't know anything.

This goes on for an hour. Finally FIL crawls out to get another tool, and I slide under there and have the chain fixed in about three minutes. That was 30 years or so ago. Didn't change a bit for 20 years - now he can't do anything and wants me to do it all.

 

[MasseyWV]

Well the combine breaks down - and I know nothing about repairing the combine.

Hmmm, I've never had the pleasure of working on a combine before, but I'd have to have a corn field to justify owning one of those wouldn't I? Naaaa, I can't afford it anyway.