SubCUT-I want a baby tractor

MMM · Jan 6, 2005

OK guys, I'm not buying another riding mower. I've gone through 2 in 7 yrs and 2 engines on the last one.The slung oiled motors can't take slopes. I need a little positive oiled, liquid cooled dsl tractor to do my 3ac well drained, lawn , and maintain a rotation of ,5a sandy loam garden so I can retire the SuperC to parade duty. No "my 17hp pulls an 8ft disc" posts, please. Keep in mind I have a 500hp utility tractor and won't ask the little one for anything but lawn and light gardening. I tend to put more faith in personal un-reccomedations, and will email anyone who doesn't want to go public. I guess I'll switch and even accept PMs.

I don't want FEL, so keep that out.

Leave price out- considered after other factors below.

At what hp/weight does a 4' disc, middle buster, hipper become a problem in loam for SubCUTs? Is there a happy medium between lawn and garden for SubCUTs, or are they even capable of tillage? Would I be sorely disapointed?

Will MFD help them plow without a lot of front weight to remove for lawn? Is it worth extra expense for gardening?

I'd like to take a 60" swath while mowing, and yet keep it simple so the wife can take care of the place while I'm at sea. Would there be more problems with MMM or RFM cutting?

Anyone who has had HST work could give hrs on machine at time of failure. It's nothing I've got to have but itwould be nice for the lady of the house. Worth the extra price?

Is there a site for customer satifaction, warranty claims, repair costs, avg hors for overhaul, service availability and general non biased info? All I've seen in Consumer Reports is for lawn tractors.

If I left any decision making questions out, chime in. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Durbob · Jan 6, 2005

John Deere 2210 is perfect for what you want.

http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/HO/series/HO_cut_2000_series.html

The website doesn't list it, but the ones i have seen advertised have a 62" mid mount mower. Also, the rototiller should get you by with your garden needs i would think.

jfdlaw · Jan 6, 2005

I spent a LOT of time looking at sub-cuts before I bought my Kub, I would echo the recommendation for the 2210. It's a great machine. A little bigger than the others if space is a concern, but nicely designed.

You mentioned slopes. You may also want to consider the Ventrac or Steiner machines. You can get a Ventrac 4200VXD that can handle any slope you throw at it and can be purchased with a 3pt hitch (no PTO though, just the hitch to drag or pull implements) The problem is that they are pretty expensive compared to a 2210 equiped the way you want it. I'm sure Bob Skurka or others will also mention Power-Tracs, but I found them to be more loader/tractor and less mower, and you said you didn't want a FEL. I found Ventracs or Steiners to be more mower and less tractor.

Bob_Skurka · Jan 6, 2005

I'm sure Bob Skurka or others will also mention Power-Tracs, but I found them to be more loader/tractor and less mower, and you said you didn't want a FEL. I found Ventracs or Steiners to be more mower and less tractor. 

Well I do often mention the PT equipment when I mention Steiner & Ventrac, but in this case I would totally agree that PT is a lesser unit for mowing and since no loader is wanted, the Steiners & Ventracs would be better options. For folks who want more of an all around machine, the PT stuff is pretty amazing. I got to compare it on my property with my Ventrac (and NH & Kubota), and know that I made the right choice for my needs, but the Ventracs have lesser FEL capabilities than the PTs.

I do love my Ventrac, I've got the little one (3000), but it mows like a demon and clings to slopes like it was glued to the ground. The 4200 is an awesome small tractor, capable of amazing things and getting into tight places with its articulated body. A guy about a mile away bought one and dug a 100 by 50 pond with it, mows the lawn and all sorts of landscaping chores.

As for the common Sub CUTS, I am not aware of any of them that offer a gear version anymore. Maybe they do, but I've not seen one. There was quite a discussion a while back debating the Kubota BX and the NH TZ and it was mostly from BX owners who really liked the NH because the hitch is supposed to be more of a full size 3pt as opposed to what is described as a limited 3pt on the BX and the JD. Not sure how the Massey GC compares.

I'm not sure that any of them are suitable for disking the earth, but all of them (including the Ventrac) are easily up to the task of powering an appropriate size tiller. A middle buster or similar might be a bigger challenge for some because of 3pt lift height and also because I think you'd run out of traction before you run out of power. Although the Ventracs and Steiners might have a weight advantage over the main brands which would give better traction when using something like the middle buster.

Glenn9643 · Jan 6, 2005

Mac,
Will you be content to break your garden, row it, perhaps plant with the new tractor or do you intend to cultivate also? I don't have any idea what's out there, but you know you have a "jewel" with the Super-C for gardening work. When I used one growing up we kept a planter/fertilizer distributor on one side and cultivating tools on the other because it was a job to set it up but it worked well when time came to plant later crops, etc.
Is a subcut or cut available that's got enough clearance and the right wheel-spacing to do any cultivating?

pequeajim · Jan 6, 2005

I totally agree with Bob that the Ventrac/Steiner tractor is one of the best slope mowers available, and I like the Ventrac the best.

If you are mowing on 10-20 degree slopes, this little tractor just cranks away without you felling like you are going to roll down the hill.

I had a 4200 31HP and the thing never skipped a beat! Plus, there's nothing like having the mower deck out front. My slopes are between 5 and 25 degrees. As much as I liked it, I ended up selling my Massey to get the Ventrac after almost rolling it for the 3rd time. I never felt like I was going to tip with the Ventrac.

I ended up moving to a PT for the main reason that I really needed more FEL functionality that was available with my 4200, however, Bob is correct in stating that the Ventrac is a better mower. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Good luck with your choice, and let us know how you make out!

JDFANATIC · Jan 6, 2005

The 2210 works well for me. It is an all-around well designed sub_CUT. The 62" MMM cuts like a dream. Today I powered through 10,500 s.f. of driveway with slopes in about 9" of really heavy wet snow -- took me less than an hour. There is no position control on the 3PH though, so for the tiller (I don't have one, so I don't know) it might not be optimal.

I always like the advice of looking at all the available brands, consider which dealer might serve your needs best, and then try the machine out on your property if possible.

Happy hunting!

jpr62902 · Jan 6, 2005

I have a BX22 and have used a middle buster with it in wet, clay like soil. The BX22 is probably the heaviest of the sub CUT's and it's not all that impressive with my plow, largely due to traction issues (but I also have turf tires). That's OK with me though, since I only need it for trenching, not full blown soil amending. In terms of ground-engaging attachments, a 4' tiller would probably be the best choice for any sub CUT (versus plowing and discing).

In terms of HP\torque, the BX probably has the smallest engine of its class (compared to other 20+ HP sub CUT's) but quite frankly, it's not an issue, because the thing has never wanted for engine power. The hydraulics, on the other hand, can be maxed out, but there is also a safety component to this (the thing is too light to handle larger loads -- this applies to all sub CUT's).

As a mower, the BX and its competitors all seem to excel. A 5' mower on any 18 or 22 HP machine is a good match. I can't comment on the RFM option, but I'm very pleased with my MMM -- excellent cut with no maneuverability issues.

With regard to the FEL, I think it's a big mistake NOT to get one. I realize you have a much larger machine at your disposal, but a 6 cu. ft. mechanized wheel barrow sure does come in handy for those "smaller" jobs.

As to the articulating machines, all I know is that everyone I've heard from who has one, loves 'em.

Whether it's JD, Kubota, CNH, Massey, PT, Steiner or Ventrac, you're probably getting a machine that will fit your needs and all the while with a big grin on your face.

hazmat · Jan 6, 2005

Regarding tillage - SCUTs are on the lighter side, but pack plenty of HP to run a 4' roto-tiller. I think you'd be happier with that than trying to disc or plow.

MFWD is worth the expense

MMM is easier to manuever with, but can cost more than a RFM. The only performance advantage re RFM is backing under trees. A RFM is slightly quicker to attach/remove than the MMM. I've used both & much prefer the MMM.

HST is worth the expense, especially for a mowing application. It is a proven technology & you will likely not ever see a failure. Besides, I don't think you can buy a gear sub-compact.

While not necessarily unbiased, TBN is the authority on sub-compacts.

I think any of the brands will serve you well - Case, NH, Deere, Kubota, Massey. etc.

See if your local dealer will drop one off to demo at your property.

MMM · Jan 6, 2005

( MMM is easier to manuever with, but can cost more than a RFM. The only performance advantage re RFM is backing under trees. A RFM is slightly quicker to attach/remove than the MMM. I've used both & much prefer the MMM.
)

Which mower follows terrain better? Are there guage wheels for MMM? I have areas in my yard similar to plateus, where there are abrupt changes in height that the rider scalps and digs up sod. I've tried going straight upthese 4-10' slopes but just spin and tear up grass anyway.

( you have a "jewel" with the Super-C for gardening work )

Yep Glenn, but she's tired and needs a rebuild, paint etc. I might downscale garden some. I probably give more stuff away to the elderly neighbors than we eat anyhow. I'll have to use the pushplow for cultivating for a season , if I can still do it. It's been a few years. Weeds aren't too bad if I postmerge in fall, disc, and build rows Feb, postmerge again march. Then disturb soil just enough to plant in April. Trick is not to bring more weed seed to surface.