Subdividing the countryside

slowrev · Feb 22, 2005

Ken,
Yep I was reading that story this morning, I home the property owners win. Unfortunately I have seen it go the other way too many times. Taking private property from one owner to give it to another private owner. Just not right.
Ben

JimMorrissey · Feb 22, 2005

As a part-time land "developer" in Vermont, I have to say there are plenty of zoning and state regulations to deal with and adhere to in my state. By no means is it some kind of free-for-all. I can't just throw in a horse shoe and call it "Maple Tree Place". The legal, adjoining property owner issues, town meetings, road requirements, set-backs, drainage, impervious soils, septic regulations, farm soil conditions, wetland issues, rights-of-way requirements, planning commission decisions, etc are staggering.

Housing is a big problem here. Land is generally scarce due to the mountainous terrain and the overall soil conditions for septic systems (and the demand). A building lot is quite valuable in Vermont, especially Stowe. I only bring it up because it was used as an example. Stowe is the single most desireable town in Vermont. "Building lots" are had by blasting the rock from the sides of the mountains. My friend who's an ER doctor can't afford a house there. Especially now, since everybody in NE seems to want to live here either full or part-time. One of the reasons why young couples can't find a remotely affordable house in Vermont is due in part to the burden of State legislation/regulation. People have to have a place to live, and if we don't provide that Vermont will have an average age of 68 years old with a net worth of 5 million dollars in a few years.

Yes, it's not much fun to see a beautiful piece of land get developed, but that's progress and that's what our entire economy is based on. It's what most of our jobs are based on and our propects for future employment. Changing iron-fisted, outdated development rules and encouraging "smart growth" is critical in any rural area close to a urban center across the country. Vermont is starting to get ahead of the curve in the smart growth respect. It's gaining momentum, but not killing growth. Smart Growth is a whole 'nother discussion....

Take a look at ACT 250 in the state of Vermont. This will give you a good idea what I'll have to deal with on my next project. The application document is approximately 80 pages and most of it will be filled out by a state certified engineer at $90 an hour, and then there's the lawyers.....As of April 1st I am not allowed to sub-divide another piece of land in my entire county for FIVE years unless I go through the ACT 250 process. -I am not against ACT 250. It certainly has it's place, but I can say without a doubt, it isn't an easy job bringing a piece of land to market.

http://www.nrb.state.vt.us/lup/index.htm

LarryRB · Feb 22, 2005

One of thoese homeowners who is now at supreme court in DC had stated this was the second time in 30 yrs. By eminant domain, they took his first house 30 years ago to replace a much needed retaining sea wall.. As of this morning, the sea wall has never been built, but offices has, and most of them are empty... He is saying that New London has a long history of mis stating their true direction after eminant domain had moved out who and where they want.. The supposed reasons are either never done, or more likely done in a way never mentioned before

riptides · Feb 22, 2005

Eminant domain - the very word sends shivers up my spine.
Progress - another one of those words.

They are based on opinion, in whose opinion - well not yours if your on the other side, obviously.

We are not going to stop growth, not going to happen. But we have a responsibility to communities, each other and future generations to find smart ways to grow.

Europe has a much longer "civilized" development cycle. Very few countries exhibit the mass gridlock, congestion and sprawl we experience here.

Perhaps it is time to look backward and find once again what we had.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

penokee · Feb 23, 2005

I've been folllowing the same story. Article 5 of the Bill of Rights states in part: "; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation." Quite clearly our Founding Fathers intended this to mean (Public Use) such as for roads, railroads, etc., not Private Use as the situation in this story. Hopefully there are enought Supreme Court Justices that believe in stricty interpreting the Constitution/Bill of Rights as written. Just another reason to elect Politicians that will work for and protect our Individual Rights. I personally credit the NRA with preserving our Individual Rights to Keep and Bear Arms as allowed under the 2nd Amendment. Politicians will listen if the noise is loud enough.
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

slydog · Feb 24, 2005

""We are not going to stop growth, not going to happen""

It stops at the edge of my property. Those who can't respect that will get a lesson in "American Patriotism".

""But we have a responsibility to communities, each other and future generations to find smart ways to grow. ""

Yeah, they teach you that in civics class. They'll be glad somebody still buys into that "smoke blowing" Go tell that to Corporate America, Halliburton, and those folks in New London and let us all know how loud and long they laugh in your face. If you're not slappin the reins, you are pulling the plow my friend. You can't do both at the same time, and ain't nobody puttin a bit in my mouth.

""Perhaps it is time to look backward and find once again what we had.""

I'm all for that. I think a good old fashioned gunslinging permanently settled most problems in a very quick and cheap manor. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

riptides · Feb 24, 2005

( It stops at the edge of my property. Those who can't respect that will get a lesson in "American Patriotism". )

Exactly what is your lesson you plan on teaching others?

""But we have a responsibility to communities, each other and future generations to find smart ways to grow. ""

( Yeah, they teach you that in civics class. They'll be glad somebody still buys into that "smoke blowing" Go tell that to Corporate America, Halliburton, and those folks in New London and let us all know how loud and long they laugh in your face. If you're not slappin the reins, you are pulling the plow my friend. You can't do both at the same time, and ain't nobody puttin a bit in my mouth. )

The great conspiracy theory again? I am not sure how corporate america plays into small developers carving out a living? I would say 1/3 of our developments in my part of the county/state are going in through local business. Perhaps in your area it is different.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

slydog · Feb 24, 2005

( ( Exactly what is your lesson you plan on teaching others? ) )

I'll invite them over for cookies and punch, and we'll all hold hands in a big circle and sing Kumbiya. Then I'll divide my property up into equal pieces and give them all a share, and let them tell me how to run my life like a good little comrade. Suddenly it is all so clear. Thank you for the enlightenment. I don't know what I was thinking???!!! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

( ( The great conspiracy theory again? I am not sure how corporate america plays into small developers carving out a living? ) )

A theory is conjecture, a fact is a fact. If you choose not to believe it, that is your right. But thats just takes us back to where we started doesn't it? Because you don't think I should have any rights if they don't jive with your Eutopian neighborhood concept, so how could you possibly believe I have a right to "believe" what I choose to "believe".

My whole point of ever posting anything on this thread was "live and let live", and "mind your own business." As you pointed out above, this isn't about "responsibility to our community, and the future of our children". This is about "developers carving out a living".

If you don't mind the aroma of my hog lot mingling with the scent of your sizzling bacon and coffee in the morning...welcome to the neighborhood. If it bothers you, go somewhere else. Is that so hard to understand?

Early on in this discussion you asked:

"I detect a "don't move here if you don't like it"

As my mom taught me, back in the days before it took a village to raise a child and it only took two responsible parents, If you don't want the answer to a question, don't ask it!

I'm tired of riding this dead horse now. I'll let you have the last word. checkmate /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

getut · Feb 24, 2005

I have often dreamed of what I would do if I were independently wealthy. The first statement that I would make would be to thumb my nose at the HOA of all HOA's.

How would I make the statement? I would LOVE to buy a house in the historic district in the center of the town that I live in, and paint the thing pink and purple polka dot, and then just sit back and wait for the lawsuits to roll in. Pay the fees as they come and keep right on trucking. Just to make the statement that I payed for it... you people can make all the rules in the world that you want to, but it is mine. I'll do with it as I please.

I cannot express how much enjoyment I would get out of that.