Subfloor adhesive recommendations

[5030tinkerer]

Do you guys have any experience with different subfloor construction adhesives? I plan on installing my 3/4 T&G plywood subfloor on my trusses this week and have noted products from DAP, PL, and Loctite (DAP Subfloor Construction And Deck Adhesive 4000, PL400 and Loctite Power Grab). There is a huge difference in cost between these options ranging from $2 for a 28oz tube to $6.50, but is there a grabbing difference? This is one of those things that you can't go back and re-do later. I want to do it right (and don't want sqeaky floors) , but don't want to throw money away either. Plans are to install deck screws maybe every 2' or so along with this adhesive. Any ideas?

 

[kennyd]

PL400 for me. It has a proven record. I also use the SENCO subfloor srews, they have the extra thread at the top of the shank that really pulls the ply down tight. Lowes sells them...look at the "interior wood to wood" screws here for an example: http://www.senco.com/pdf/catalog/sg_chart.pdf

Also, screw every 8" to 12", not 24".

 

[Marlowe]

I just did that job a few weeks ago and used two different brands of glue with similar pricing. I used some of the stuff from Builder's First Source with their label. It was a pain. It was too thick and real hard to get it out of the tube and it tended to bead up and roll off the wood. Others I asked told me that it worked good though. The other brand I used was something Fastenal sells. It's labeled Builder's First Choice and is produced by Liquid Nails. It was a pure pleasure to use after the other stuff. The gun was easy to operate and the glue stayed on the wood like you would expect. If I were doing it again, nothing but the Fastenal stuff for me.

I put the wood on using only nails as the directions indicated. I'm going back and putting screws in it. Some of the plywood panels were slightly warped and pulled loose before the glue could dry. That wouldn't have happened with screws. In fact, with screws I wonder about the need for glue at all, but would still use it. It's cheap, and like you said, you can't really go back and do it after the wood's on the framing.

 

[Nat]

Liquid nails , hard to beat. Later, Nat

 

[5030tinkerer]

Also, screw every 8" to 12", not 24".

It's funny you mention this...I was wondering if there was a specification out there somewhere on stuff like this. Is there or is just what others have always done? (how do you know how much is enough?)

On the PL400 vs the other stuff, the PL400 is like $5 a tube or so, the DAP was on sale for $1.99/tube. $3/tube extra is cheap insurance if the stuff works better, but then there is the Loctite brand for like $6.50. Sort of hard to know what to choose. It doesn't surprise me that the Liquid Nails product worked well, but my supplier didn't carry that - maybe I need to check with another supply house. Too many choices here. Is there some toughness rating / holding power rating out there anywhere?

 

[Marlowe]

The wood that I put on had a manufacturer's recommendation as to fastener spacing and type. The brand name of the wood is Advantech. They specified six inch spacing on the edges and twelve inch spacing otherwise using 8d nails. Like I said, I'm going back and put screws in. The nails didn't hold the warped boards down. I thought seriously about using 10d nails but decided I didn't want to risk splitting the floor joists. I think I was worried too much. Should have went with the longer nails.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I did not have good results with liquid nail.

 

[5030tinkerer]

I did not have good results with liquid nail.

What sort of trouble did you have with it? In what application? Until your post, I hadn't heard of anyone anywhere that had trouble with it.

 

[EddieWalker]

With screws, you realy don't need glue, but since glue is so cheap and works so well, it's crazy not to use both. As for glue, I've always had good luck with liquid nails. I use it for just about everything with good results. A few times I've had to tear apart two pieces of wood that had liquid nails holding them together and the glue has always held. The wood will give before the glue.

Eddie

 

[5030tinkerer]

That's sort of what I thought. I actually found the Lquid Nails product at my supplier this evening and am planning to use it. The extra hundred bucks or so across my project is well worth not being upset later should a floor squeak.

 

[InlineDieselFan]

I like SikaFlex it is about $4.50 for the regular sized tubes. I have used Liquid Nails and it worked well, but I tink the SikaFlex is much better.

steve

 

[Spark_man]

I plan on installing my 3/4 T&G plywood subfloor on my trusses ...

Don't use plywood. The AdvanTech stuff is much better and has a 50 year warranty. My son builds custom homes and says they use this stuff exclusively. Water will bead up on it.

Here's a like to the manufacturer's website. Welcome to Huber Engineered Woods

 

[nolefan]

I second the recommendation of Advantech for sub flooring over plywood. Our builder used it on our house in NC and I was very pleased with the specs as well as its ability to handle rain prior to the house being dried in. Not sure what adhesive he used but I know they only nailed it, no screws.

 

[5030tinkerer]

Wow. Advantech looks to be an impressive product - I only wish I had seen the post earlier (that's what I get for not hopping on TBN every day!). My subfloor on the main level is now installed using 3/4 T&G plywood and Liquid Nails adhesive. So far so good, but it hasn't rained yet. Even if it does, I'm thinking that I should be in okay shape anyway since I am having gypcrete poured over the floor. What do you guys think? Would I be better off with the Advantech flooring on the second level understanding that it, too, will have the gypcrete overpour?

 

[buckeyefarmer]

What sort of trouble did you have with it? In what application? Until your post, I hadn't heard of anyone anywhere that had trouble with it.

I used Liquid Nail to glue my subfloor to the joists, and then nailed. It has popped loose in several areas. In a couple places I can see in the basement where there is no ceiling, the nails in those places missed the joist, but other places it popped where the nails have not missed. Still I would have expected the glue to hold. I have 2x10 joists, which are not as true, so that contributes to the popping. Here's a pic of one area, hard to tell from the pic but it appears the glue has seperated, and not the wood has pulled off one side.

For my garage I used TJI joists, and it's glued with FS110, supplied by the company I got the TJI's from. I have not found a problem with it so far. It says it will bond wet/frozen wood.

 

[Dusty]

When I built our home 24 years ago, I had the sub floor glued and nailed and back then, they said the glue had a 50 year warranty. Now, some of the floors have squeaks in them, and as we re-carpet the house, I screw the sub flooring to the joists. This has helped to eliminate the squeaks, but occasionally one seems to start up where there was no squeak the week before, and a few weeks later it is gone. I believe it has something to do with the moisture content of the air and how that moisture is absorbed into the wood. The only flooring that has never had a squeak is where the ceramic tiles were installed. The subcontractor that did that work, screwed the flooring every 2". Then he installed expanded steel mesh and nailed that every 2" in every direction. Then came the concrete mixed with latex and it was spread over the steel mesh. Then the tiles were buttered and set on top of that. In 24 years, we have never had one tile come loose, crack or have any squeaks. It has been perfect in every way but one. Every time my wife drops a plate or glass on it, the plate or glass shatters into many small pieces. The down side of tile is that you best pick something that you will like for a long time into the future. It is truly a permanent flooring. Dusty

 

[JeffRey30747]

I used the Advantech subfloor in the new house that I'm building. It came highly recommended and appears to be an excellent product. I did notice however, that the instructions called for nailing with 8d ring shank nails and we used those. They do seem to be harder to pull out than the smooth shank. They aren't that much more and the nail gun doesn't seem to know the difference when driving them so I used them on all my OSB sheathing too.

Jeff

 

[Spark_man]

I assume your using the gypcrete because you are putting in a radiant heat system?

If so, that really is a get it right the first time, no second chances deal. If it were me, I'd use the Advantech, a quality construction adhesive (the best I could afford), and screw to the joists.

But that's just me.