Subfloor Question

[twinter11]

Long time reader, first time poster. I will try to make a long story short.
I am in the process of acquiring material to build a lake house. I set out to purchase as much as possible (everything so far) from Craigslist etc. and store it on site until I had the majority of it bought. The plans in my head changed depending on what items were available. The ideas have now gone to the architect to design based on materials I have with a rough design idea. Crazy, I know.
The foundation will be crawlspace with perimeter beam and TJI floor joists.
Final flooring will be wood and tile and carpet.

I have been looking for some T & G subfloor but none has come available till last week. I ran across some 1-1/4" plywood mezzanine flooring. T&G 4 sides, plastic coated both sides , 100 sheets. I had to buy it sight unseen as it is in a secure area and I will pick it up tomorrow. The seller does not know the manufacturer, but searching the internet the only flooring I find like this is a HDPE coated product. Here is a link to what I think the product might be.

nupoly mezzanine decking

My question is does anyone have any thoughts as to whether this coating will cause major problems? As far as resistance to adhesives and attaching it to joists? Laying flooring over it etc.
It is supposed to be 100% vapor barrier.
I am also concerned I will have to counter-sink all the screw holes to prevent the coating from pushing up around the edge of the heads.

I have already committed to purchase but will not use it if it is more trouble than it is worth.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks for any help!
TW

 

[DaveOmak]

TW, Sounds like a good deal to me.
Most construction these days uses a moisture and vapor barrier. Especially needed for laundry, bath etc. If you have a leak, less damage likely to structure because you will notice the water sooner. As far as counter sinking the fasteners, there is a screw made that counter sinks itself. It is used for securing cement board in showers and flooring. A few bucks more but the right product. One thing you will have to check is the weight of the 1 1/4" + tile ect and floor joist load. Might be worth going up 2" on the joist to firm up the floor. When you are finished you will definitely get your return on investment in a quality home.
Now that you have my 2 cents, you have the architect to tell you the "truth". Best wishes. Dave

 

[dave1949]

The oddest questions come up here

For tile, many of the guaranteed 'no crack' systems isolate the tile from the subfloor on purpose. So, maybe that's no issue.

Looks like rugged stuff, but could be a bit too commercial looking for a lake cabin if left exposed in a living area?
Dave.

 

[bornredi]

As a builder guy(I confess I didn't go to the link) I would say don't bother with adhesive, unless there is one made to adhere the product you're using. Other than that, it sounds good.

 

[twinter11]

Dave,
there is a screw made that counter sinks itself.

I will look into those.


One thing you will have to check is the weight of the 1 1/4" + tile ect and floor joist load. Might be worth going up 2" on the joist to firm up the floor.

The TJI's I found for the first floor are 3-1/2" x 16". They are over 40' long now but will be cut down to size. The 2nd floor I found some 3-1/2" x 14" ( also over 40' long) but are what looks like LVL instead of 2x lumber.

When you are finished you will definitely get your return on investment in a quality home.

The panels are supposedly 100$ each retail. I bought 100 for 15$ a piece.They load it!
I get to unload it, but with an old junker Skytrak I bought for just these occasions.

I am sure my architect thinks I am crazy, I may be!

I am trying to figure out how this reply and quotes thing works.

Thanks, TW

 

[twinter11]

The oddest questions come up here

For tile, many of the guaranteed 'no crack' systems isolate the tile from the subfloor on purpose. So, maybe that's no issue.

Looks like rugged stuff, but could be a bit too commercial looking for a lake cabin if left exposed in a living area?
Dave.

There will be wood flooring over a large part of the house. I have not figured out what product I will buy and how the coating will affect how I attach it. Also whether I should put some other product between the wood floor and the subfloor for noise etc?

For tile, I assume cement board over it so should not be a problem.

For carpeted areas, not sure the best thing, (if anything) below padding?

Thanks, TW

 

[twinter11]

As a builder guy(I confess I didn't go to the link) I would say don't bother with adhesive, unless there is one made to adhere the product you're using. Other than that, it sounds good.

It appears adhesives do not want to adhere to it.
So you think it may not be needed?

Thanks, TW

 

[DaveOmak]

TW, Gluing the boards? I have used Polyurethane caulk in many locations. It seems to stick to anything! Try a few of the glues, caulks etc, as an experiment.
If the floor joists are "old" lumber, you may have to use a small electric hand planer to expose "new wood" to glue to. A small price to pay when you have such great pieces of lumber to build with. My dad and his 2 brothers built our house in '52. They used old timbers like you described. 3/1/2 x 12" from a pier that was replaced. One heck of a floor substrate.
Sounds like a great project. If you can, keep us up to date with pictures and comentary. Thanks,Dave

 

[nickel plate]

TW,
All structural subfloor panels have a span index rating stamped on each sheet. Don't know if your coated panels do but you are going to have to come up with it for the architect, structural engineer and the good old building department.
Call your I-Joist manufacturer. They quite possibly will have all of the panel information you need.
As per your I-Joist manufacturer, you will need to use an adhesive to set the panels to the joist. If adhesive bonding becomes a problem, look into marine adhesives as some of them are designed to work on wood and plastic.
You said that ALL FOUR edges are T&G. Do you know if the panels are scant or full face? If they are scant face, they will quickly put a hurt on your I-Joist layout and in the end not fall properly on an end run designed for a multiple of four feet.
If any of the above do not work in your favor, walk away from that stuff.

 

[twinter11]

I picked up the material today. The coating on each side is different.
The top is 1/8" layer of HDPE, feels like the density of a plastic cutting board which this type material is also used for. The ply is a full 1-1/8". The bottom looks like a real heavy plastic or melamine, not very thick. High gloss surface.

If the floor joists are "old" lumber, you may have to use a small electric hand planer to expose "new wood" to glue to. A small price to pay when you have such great pieces of lumber to build with. My dad and his 2 brothers built our house in '52. They used old timbers like you described.

I would like to have some old timbers but these are TJI wood I-beams, rated for 20 something foot span though, which is much longer than I will have.

Will post some pics next reply.

Thanks, TW

 

[twinter11]

All structural subfloor panels have a span index rating stamped on each sheet. Don't know if your coated panels do but you are going to have to come up with it for the architect, structural engineer and the good old building department.

I looked for a stamp but there was none. Since there is no stamp, I guess I can use the rating from the link in my first post. My joist spacing will be 24" OC so this should be overkill.

As per your I-Joist manufacturer, you will need to use an adhesive to set the panels to the joist. If adhesive bonding becomes a problem, look into marine adhesives as some of them are designed to work on wood and plastic.

I will call the panel manufacturer and see what they reccomend.

You said that ALL FOUR edges are T&G. Do you know if the panels are scant or full face? If they are scant face, they will quickly put a hurt on your I-Joist layout and in the end not fall properly on an end run designed for a multiple of four feet.

Some of the panels they had were grooved on all edges with splines for the ends. All the ones I picked up were T&G 2 sides only. The panels are full 4' x 8', not including the tongues. Thickness is a full 1-1/4". Only 1-1/8" of that is ply. These were uninstalled from a warehouse mezzanine that was heavy duty construction.

I ended up with 110 sheets for $1500.00. After seeing them, I believe the seller was truthful about the 100.00 retail price for each.

See if I can post some pics.
First one is warehouse where picked up. Next are the materials.

[/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG]

Maybe it will work.

TW

 

[twinter11]

[/IMG]

Maybe this time.

 

[twinter11]

As far as counter sinking the fasteners, there is a screw made that counter sinks itself.

This was used material, so picking it up, I noticed all holes are already pre-drilled and countersunk at just the OC spacing I need.
Works for me!
TW

 

[MarkV]

Looks to me like you got a great deal. Those panels will make a very sturdy sub-floor. As a hardwood flooring contractor I would not hesitate to install flooring that is designed to nail down on them. We normally use 15lbs roofing felt as a layer between the subfloor and the wood floor.

MarkV

 

[twinter11]

Looks to me like you got a great deal. Those panels will make a very sturdy sub-floor. As a hardwood flooring contractor I would not hesitate to install flooring that is designed to nail down on them. We normally use 15lbs roofing felt as a layer between the subfloor and the wood floor.

MarkV

Thanks MakV,
15lb felt then.
I am thinking a handscraped oak maybe.
Would you buy a factory *handscraped* or just buy unfinshed (maybe reclaimed) and have it scraped and finished on-site?
I guess price would have to enter into it.

Any preference for engineered or solid etc.?

I have never looked close at the factory vesion, just the done on-site type.

Thanks, TW

 

[MarkV]

I greatly prefer solid wood flooring over the laminated engineered flooring. When you look at engineered flooring you will see the finish wood layer is very thin. Generally engineered flooring is prefinished at the factory and when the day comes that it needs to be refinished you might be able to sand it one time.

The "handscraped" finishing you talk about we don't see around here. It is the way hardwood floors were first finished in the old days. It would strike me as extremely labor intensive and there for expensive. Our floors are sanded three times, stained if desired and finished with three coats of polyurethane.

MarkV