Traction subsoiler/ripper - enough traction?

[Grubs]

I have a B1750 (20HP) 4WD HST with turf tyres.

I want to pull a single tyne ripper (I think you guys call it a subsoiler) through some rabbit warrens to destroy them to a depth of 40-50cm (18").

Soil here has a fair bit of clay and in summer is hard but crumbly. In winter has a little more give.

I'm happy to take multiple passess at the job - perhaps digging in only 6-8" on each pass but my experience just loading a rear bucket with mulch tells me that my tractor doesnt have a lot of traction.

I can add weight, and perhaps get some chains for the rear tires (if chains of this size are available in Australia - we dont get a lot of snow) but I'm wondering if I'll still be just pi$$ing into the wind. I can easily imagine that lowering the ripper to the ground might just anchor the tractor in one place... but I might be underestimating it. I dont have many hours in the seat.

Before I go out and spend $400 on it, is pulling a single tyne ripper/subsoiler a job for a bigger tractor?

 

[johan3400]

I only have experience with an L3400 (35 hp) I pull a ripper 14 inches deep and it is all the tractor wants most of the time I am in clay. I have R4 tires, not turf and I would hate to spend 400 and not get the results I want. I purchased my subsoiler for $20 at a farm sale. I am happy with the results, but would hate to spend a bunch more and maybe have less than I want for results. Your idea of several passes may work, but each time you loosen the soil you also loose traction some.

 

[BruceWard]

I looked at rippers a few years ago. Most wanted a 30HP tractor. What does the spec sheet say for the ripper you are looking at? I doubt you could rip 18" at a time. I ended up have a Cat D4H Dozer rip 24". This ripping was for pine tree planted. Teh Dozer ripped about 30 acres for around $1400.

 

[rdsaustintx]

I have a B1750 (20HP) 4WD HST with turf tyres.

A BX will pull a subsoiler/potato plow through about anything, at least with ags. But turf tire on a B-series is just wrong. Plain wrong.

 

[Harvest Moon]

I've had my subsoiler down 14" to 16" with my L3400 in very hard packed clay.. it was a parking lot for tractor trailers before I graded the 3/4 crushed stone off.

The first 8 to 10 inches were too hard to do anything, the tip would drag on top like concrete but once I got it down under it did pretty well about 60% of the job, ripping up large chunks of packed clay. The other 40% took 80% of the time as it would stop the tractor dead, 4wd loaded R4's locked and spinning, about 3300 lbs of machine at that point.

My thought is you'd probably be fine if you could keep the tip engaged in 6 to 8 inches drops but it's not too likely you'll pull much more than that at once with 20 hp and turf tires unless it's pretty soft.

My biggest problem is that at full 3 pt hight I have to adjust the top link to keep the tip just a few inches off the ground for transport. To get the right ripping angle for maximum depth I have to readjust after I get it started because at full hight the tip is about 2" below grade. Be sure your smaller tractor has the three point hight to install it.

 

[LBrown59]

A BX will pull a subsoiler/potato plow through about anything, at least with ags. But turf tire on a B-series is just wrong. Plain wrong.

It hain't a tractor till it gets AGs.

 

[Tom_H]

A BX will pull a subsoiler/potato plow through about anything, at least with ags.

With the right conditions, I agree. I got my BX with subsoiler to rip Duripan (silica cemented hardpan-almost like concrete) with embedded rocks. I had to be in low gear and strapped several large buckets of river cobble to the subsoiler as ballast. I agree about the ag tires. I had mine on and even they would sometimes spin. I had to sometimes get a running start to rip, and was able to do about 1 inch at a time. There's no way the potato plow (middle buster) would do anything in this stuff however. IF you have some really heavy duty adjustable chains already on hand to put over those turfs, it MIGHT make a little difference, but I just don't know. In addition to ballast on the subsoiler, I'd recommend ballast to the rear of the tractor as well for more traction from rear wheels. Factors that would help a B series do better than a BX are: geared (direct drive) tranny with extra low pulling gear, larger diameter rear tires.

 

[JonR]

I only have experience with an L3400 (35 hp) I pull a ripper 14 inches deep and it is all the tractor wants most of the time I am in clay. I have R4 tires, not turf and I would hate to spend 400 and not get the results I want. I purchased my subsoiler for $20 at a farm sale. I am happy with the results, but would hate to spend a bunch more and maybe have less than I want for results. Your idea of several passes may work, but each time you loosen the soil you also loose traction some.

I can't seem to get my subsoiler to go but 4-5 inches into the ground, even when I have weights on it, how do you get yours that deep

 

[Grubs]

... But turf tire on a B-series is just wrong. Plain wrong.

It hain't a tractor till it gets AGs.

lol

I felt this way too but my desire to reduce ground compression and preserve our back lawn that is in fairly unstable loam pushed me towards the turfs. I figure that I dont have a FEL so I'm driving a girls tractor anyhow Some heavy duty "Mr T" style chains should restore some masculinity but by the looks of this thread those of you with success and the subsoiler mostly have 30HP+ tractors, more weight and more grip.

I had to sometimes get a running start to rip, and was able to do about 1 inch at a time. There's no way the potato plow (middle buster) would do anything in this stuff however. IF you have some really heavy duty adjustable chains already on hand to put over those turfs, it MIGHT make a little difference, but I just don't know.

I suspect your experience is close to what I'd find. 1" at a time is just never going to help me and I just cant imagine how much weight I'd have to add to get those turfs gripping once the top crust has been broken. For my job (tearing up rabbit warrens) I'd need multiple passess and I need to go at least 18" deep. A few sticks of TNT would be my first choice just for the fun factor but for legal reasons I think I might just call in the pros with the right hardware.... at least to get a quote.

 

[PINGG2BLUE]

I can't seem to get my subsoiler to go but 4-5 inches into the ground, even when I have weights on it, how do you get yours that deep

You can possibly lengthen your toplink. It should change the angle of plow to bite deeper.

 

[steverichmond]

It hain't a tractor till it gets AGs.

Do R4's count?

 

[KJM]

Grubs,
The issue you will have is not Hp - it's weight/traction. My soil here is clay. 100% clay. Very heavy - concrete in the summer and plastic in winter. I've pulled a single tine (home made) ripper about 12" deep with the B7100 (all 16Hp of it). No problems with the rear tyres filled and every piece of heavy steel I could find "attached" to the back of the tractor. It just slowly pulled along. Basically at less than 1/2 throttle - I hardly ever have it running hard.

"Floaters" - big chunks of rock - in the clay snag the ripper and cause wheel spin. Lifting the 3pt and then going back a couple of times fixed most of them. Hitting one stops you instantly! Very slow going - if you've got a lot of bunnies to nuke you'll be a while. Getting someone with a dozer might be cheaper!

If you've got a pile of scrap material on hand - why not cobble together a ripper to see if the tractor will pull it. Unless you engineer it well, it won't last but it'll answer the question for your tractor and your soil. Just a thought.

Best of luck. Whack those bunnies!

/Kevin

 

[alchemysa]

If you have a ripper on the back and set the angle right it may actually increase your traction because it will pull your tractor 'down'. (I think).

I've got a B1550 with turfs. Even less power than you. My guess is you'd rip 12" easily as long as you have the angle of the tine set so its pointing well forward. But $400 is a lot to pay to find out. Can't you borrow one? Or as Kevin suggested make something out of scrap. I made a simple dual tine ripper in about 60 minutes that I attached to my front bucket. It does 8" rips easily in most soil.

And don't forget you have a rear wheel diff lock pedal.

 

[Wingone]

I have a Case Farmall 31 with a worksaver single shank subsoiler. My 31 is 4wd with ag tires all around. Usually when I am cutting roots around a field, I will run out of traction long before I run out of horsepower. I normally will do go in the same track twice to go over about 8 inches and then down to about 12-14 inches the second time. I can tell you to that a big root will bring the little 31 hp tractor to either a quick stop or kill it. My quess is you will run out of traction real quick with turf tires. I have yet to shear the shear bolt with the little 31 hp tractor.

 

[Tom_H]

If you have a ripper on the back and set the angle right it may actually increase your traction because it will pull your tractor 'down'. (I think).

I've got a B1550 with turfs. Even less power than you. My guess is you'd rip 12" easily as long as you have the angle of the tine set so its pointing well forward. But $400 is a lot to pay to find out. Can't you borrow one? Or as Kevin suggested make something out of scrap. I made a simple dual tine ripper in about 60 minutes that I attached to my front bucket. It does 8" rips easily in most soil.

And don't forget you have a rear wheel diff lock pedal.

One's idea of "most soil" likely depends upon where he lives and what "most soil" is like in that area. This is not going to happen in dry clay and definitely not in a true hardpan like duripan, ironpan, or caliche. Sand or already plowed loam, yes, already busted clay, yes, but ancient, dry, heavy, compacted soils with that sized tractor just is not realistic. The duripan around here gets ripped for vinyards with a Cat D-11R:

Google Image Result for http://www.dadscats.com/media/ccmd11r

 

[mozark]

To make a subsoiler go deeper you need to shorten the top link. I have a KK on my BX2350, it will only go about 14" deep. I made another tooth so it would go 20" deep, could never get it to work because the travel of the lift arms was only about 14". May be a limiting factor for you too.

 

[alchemysa]

One's idea of "most soil" likely depends upon where he lives and what "most soil" is like in that area. This is not going to happen in dry clay and definitely not in a true hardpan like duripan, ironpan, or caliche. Sand or already plowed loam, yes, already busted clay, yes, but ancient, dry, heavy, compacted soils with that sized tractor just is not realistic. The duripan around here gets ripped for vinyards with a Cat D-11R:

Google Image Result for http://www.dadscats.com/media/ccmd11r

Fair comment, but bunnies usually pick pretty soft soil... at least round here they do.

 

[KJM]

One's idea of "most soil" likely depends upon where he lives and what "most soil" is like in that area. This is not going to happen in dry clay and definitely not in a true hardpan like duripan, ironpan, or caliche. Sand or already plowed loam, yes, already busted clay, yes, but ancient, dry, heavy, compacted soils with that sized tractor just is not realistic. The duripan around here gets ripped for vinyards with a Cat D-11R:

Quite so, but I'd still give it a go. The soil here is (as I said) infinite clay with large iron floaters. But where the vegie garden is we have a quartz/ironstone hardpan layer. It's about 6 inches thick and then you get back into lurid orange clay. My home made ripper just skidded over the hardpan - I could not get it to penetrate. But when I used a 6 foot bar to knock a hole into the hardpan and dropped the ripper point into that, it worked just fine. Well, it worked anyway. Very slow with lots of wheel slip. The insanely un-ergonomic Kubota diff lock pedal is mandatory.

But a large Cat would be better! But would probably not get into the space

Curiously, the vegie garden is just about the only place on the block I've dug that actually has the hardpan layer. Murphy works perfectly when siting things, it would seem.

/Kevin