Super insulated...er...barn. Heating options

[5030tinkerer]

I am going to be building a 40x60x16 barn/shop with a gambrel roof providing top level usable space of another 1200 sqft. Walls are going to be polyurethane SIPS, maybe from thermocore.com and maybe from Earthcore SIPs. Regardless, walls and roof are going to be a true R40. So...way tight.

With all the equipment I've gathered over the years, I am thinking of a waste oil heater as a heat source, but electricity is way cheap for me at $0.031/kwh in the winter. I've been looking at Clean Burn - Waste Oil Heater, Waste Oil Furnace, & Used Oil Recycling.

Does anyone have any experience with these guys or with waste oil furnaces in general? Any comparisons to this as a heat source vs a mini split system vs using a geothermal system from a 1.5 acre pond I am building?

Thanks!

 

[user.69169]

ONE question, how many gallons of USED (NOT waste) oil you already got, and how many gallons a month can you get every month from now on? You ain't got the oil ain't any point to buying the burner.

Do some thinking on how you going to seal the floor and frost fencing the foundation where you located or you turn the barn into a steambath.

 

[George2615]

Clean Burn is one of the popular brands. But check the needs of the burner you get. Some waste oil burners do not have an on board air compressor. That would require it to be connected to your shop compressor. Make sure you look at all the requirements needed. I have also been looking for a waste oil burner for my garage. I don't want to build one and I really don't want to pay new price. Used ones in my area are hard to find.

 

[Gunny]

Mother Earth News used to have plans to build your own oil burner, but I just checked them out and now you have to pay to download the instruction book.
As best as I can remember, it used commonly available parts and anything that needed to be fabricated could be done with most common tools, mostly a welder.
You could check the site out, then decide if it would be worth $22.95 to download the book.

 

[LD1]

With that insulation, and cheap electric costs, for me it would be a no brainer, I'd be putting in a 5 ton heat pump.

Those rates are 1/6th of what I have. I am paying ~$0.12/kwh

.03/kwh is some seriously cheap BTU's.

 

[Gary Fowler]

At those electric rates, you may want to consider putting in a large hot water heater and some radiant heat tubing in you floor slab. I would think that 8" of high density foam insulation under the slab should be sufficient insulation. The heat pump might not be too efficient at temps much below 20 F so additional supplemental heat is going to be needed. Lots of folks up in the frozen north use the radiant heating in the slab with good results.

 

[MossRoad]

I'd heat it with radiant heat. You can heat fluid with anything; gas, oil, electric, solar, geothermal, etc....
With the high insulation factor you are giving and the cheap electric rates you have, two electric water heaters could be used to heat the entire place.

 

[Loadstar]

I vote for the slab heat. Waste oil heating can be picky. They don't like big mixes of different oil that people like to feed them. Not a lot of people can/should work on them either.

 

[Egbert]

Haven't heated my new 30x50 barn just yet but I did put heat in my 24x48 garage. I found a used mobile home electric central heat unit. Cost me a couple hundred bucks and can turn the garage into an oven in about 3 minutes. The thing takes up about 12x24 inches on the floor and sits in the corner out of the way - no venting, no ducts.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Radiant heat in your floor with at least solar. Back it up with either some sort of furnace (wood boilers are the most cost effective but the most labor intensive).

But the radiant heat is the key. Its a big space where heat rises, having it on your floor will be a big help.

 

[Danno1]

Mother Earth News used to have plans to build your own oil burner, but I just checked them out and now you have to pay to download the instruction book.
As best as I can remember, it used commonly available parts and anything that needed to be fabricated could be done with most common tools, mostly a welder.
You could check the site out, then decide if it would be worth $22.95 to download the book.

There was a fairly long thread on here a few years back by a guy who built his own WO heater. It turned out rather well as I remember.

But the radiant heat is the key. Its a big space where heat rises, having it on your floor will be a big help.

And when you crawl under your truck/tractor in the winter you won't want to get up!!! :laughing:



.

 

[MossRoad]

And when you crawl under your truck/tractor in the winter you won't want to get up!!! :laughing:



.

Boy that's the truth. A long time ago I worked at the airport and we had a hangar with a heated floor. Pull in planes, trucks, etc... in middle of winter. Hose off the snow. Squeegee the floor and the puddles would steam. A few minutes later the floor is dry and you're laying on a thin pad under a truck in a T-shirt. Very nice.

 

[teejk]

Iowa...Heat-pump? They have limits I think and I'm not sure a heat-pump would work all year around. Radiant is great heat and at your electric rates I would agree that a hot water heater would be a good choice. In my central Wis shop I use a LP 60 gal tank in my 30x40 space with 2" CCF under the slab, R19 in the walls and R50 in the ceiling...it ain't cheap but it is nice solely because something in the brain says that if your feet and legs are warm, your whole body is warm.

 

[DeereMann]

careful with comparing current energy rates......suggest you look at your area's forecast before you lock in a large, inflexible, capital energy supply investment. electric rates were also around $0.03/kW-hr around here before the cooperatives started building excess capacity on speculation (remember Enron?) - now we are stuck with paying for unused generation for $0.11/kW-hr.

I am glad I went with natural gas forced air heat!

 

[teejk]

careful with comparing current energy rates......suggest you look at your area's forecast before you lock in a large, inflexible, capital energy supply investment. electric rates were also around $0.03/kW-hr around here before the cooperatives started building excess capacity on speculation (remember Enron?) - now we are stuck with paying for unused generation for $0.11/kW-hr.

I am glad I went with natural gas forced air heat!

I lived in NY and had ConEd...24cents/kwh there. Not everybody has Nat gas service...I don't otherwise I never would have all those LP tanks and wouldn't have to refill those little tanks for the smoker/grills.

Radiant or forced air, the heat source can be changed at a later date (some money I know) but the tubes or ducting are already there and if plumbed/ducted properly the source can be changed without starting all over. It does require some upfront planning to enable the option to swap a unit easily. Perhaps gas has the edge there because going to/from nat gas to LP is a simple conversion without changing the unit.

I like the radiant because I find that I can work easily in 55-60F unless I'm doing paint/varnish stuff...But most likely I spend the same or more as I would with running a forced air system at 70F. With radiant in slab you are maintaining the slab throughout the heating season and it takes a day or two to bring it up to temp. Forced air will heat the space in a few hours. I guess the decision comes down to how often the shop gets used in the winter and whether you like a warm floor to work on.

 

[DeereMann]

I hear ya - when push came to shove for pole barn features with the budget limit, i went without the radiant but oversized the natural gas furnace - i oversize it for rapid transient heatup - so i leave the interior at 45F when i'm not there, then dial it up to 60-65F when i come in. i think it's something like 120,000 BTU/hr heat rate - bigger than my house furnace!

 

[teejk]

I hear ya - when push came to shove for pole barn features with the budget limit, i went without the radiant but oversized the natural gas furnace - i oversize it for rapid transient heatup - so i leave the interior at 45F when i'm not there, then dial it up to 60-65F when i come in. i think it's something like 120,000 BTU/hr heat rate - bigger than my house furnace!

You live in Minn, I live in Wis. My shop is a woodworking thing that I use a lot so I bite the bullet on the LP bills to get the comfort of the warm floors because so many things require a lot of time on my feet. Radiant is expensive and backbreaking to install!

My wife and I did that in a day.

If it was a "once and awhile" thing, I would probably have opted for a ceiling mounted "hot dog" heater like you see in warehouses. I know a few people that have installed wood burners with blower fans but wood is a lot of work.