Super M won't start

DJ54 · Jun 29, 2015

Yeah, that's why I mentioned back in post #8, since it's been recently OH'd, if maybe a cam bearing spun, and galded things up.

If the oil pump did happen to lock up, the gears on either end have a 1/8" pin through them to secure/drive the gear on the shaft, that I'm thinking would surely shear before taking the center out of that gear.

Can't help but think the front cam bearing is the one that spun, and seized the cam shaft. If it were the other two, I'd think it would snap the camshaft, before breaking the center out of that gear. Again, for your sake, hope I'm wrong...

Drifter52 · Jun 29, 2015

Checked the hydraulic pump first thing as was in my mind something had to lock up to break it. Seems to spin free as does the distributor. Talked with previous owner and he said the cam gear broke once on him about 10 years ago as well. The hydraulic controls on this are a patched up 2 spool unit. Everything plumbed in galvanized fittings and hoses strung around like spaghetti. One of the spools has quick disconnects and I have no idea what the pressure relief is set at. I have no idea if dead heading the pump could cause this or not. If not looking to make sure which control knob one grabs maybe or at least contributes to it?

The break didn't look like much of a new break. Maybe 1 last dead head was enough to finish it. I will be removing the spare handle for just in case. I also have pulled the valve cover and the cam turns free enough and no broken springs and spun each push rod and didn't note any bent rods. I seem to have a lot more speculations then facts though.

DJ54 · Jun 30, 2015

Glad everything turns..!!

Just did a quick look as far as M's & Super M's with live hydraulics. Seems IH came out with a replacement cam gear that was a little beefier. They have/had a solid hub, and not the three holes. So apparently that has been a problem from the get go, with the live hydraulic pumps.

Don't have a clue as to what the relief pressure is supposed to be. Seems the old lift-all belly pumps were around 600 to 850, and did read where they bumped the pressure, and volume up on the live pumps, but what I read, did not say to how much. However, I took a quick look in my I&T manual, and it says the relief valve should unload at between 750 psi, and 1000 psi., on an OEM Super MTA live pump.

So if the gear you got is the old 3 hole style, I'd definitely do a pressure check.

Drifter52 · Jul 1, 2015

Thanks DJ54 That kid of confirms my suspicion. This appears to be an after market valve. My bet is the pressure relief is set way too high as in like a log spliter. Cold oil being thicker in cvold weather could well cause a problem I would think.

When working in the mine maintenance we had a guy they finally got rid of that would blow a pump on purpose. He would peak the pump with a load against the back Then slam it into float and catch the load just before it would hit the ground. Resulted 1 time it blew thew whole back out of a commercial shearing gear pump. A supervisor finally caught him in the act.

I will be investing in a gauge and reset the pressure relief to 750 as I sure don't want to do a repeat performance on this. The spare handle will also be removed to decrease the likelihood of operator error as well.

Drifter52 · Jul 2, 2015

Bought me a 98 Toyota pick up yesterday as my old F 250 diesel transmission finally gave up the ghost. Headed to town to get some RTV as I finally got the gear remains off. Got beside the old dead tractor and the bottom ball joint separated laying the wheel on its side. I swear I am feeling like that Li"l Abner cartoon character with the rain cloud over his head. Crankshaft gear looks to have a million hours on it wore almost to a point. Others look OK though.

DJ54 · Jul 2, 2015

Man, you are having a time of it... Hope you got the truck off a lot, where they have at least a 90 day warranty. Is the 4 X 4 an automatic..?? I'm not a Ford guy, but think they messed up when they dropped the C-6 tranny. They would definitely take a beating, and keep going.

Had bad streaks like that, where everything I seem to touch turns to sh*t. As my Pappy used to say... "One more thing goes wrong, I'm going back to bed..."

Drifter52 · Jul 6, 2015

Waiting on my CV axle now. Went up and finally found the timing mark on the crank gear. That gear is junk now too. Found the idler gear is shot and a contributor to the mess. Bearings on it are toast. Hope to be able to fire it off and get back to the flat area so can crib it and split it. Crank gear is mushroomed to the inside and out and wore to a point. Any good spot to get a set of gears without breaking the bank too bad? Beginning to think might be farther ahead to put the money into the 4 X 4 Yanmar with the cracked head.

DJ54 · Jul 7, 2015

I'd try searching on TractorHouse. Used Tractors For Sale at TractorHouse.com: John Deere Tractors, used farm tractors and farm equipment, tractors for sale, Case IH, New Holland, Agco, Kubota The key to searching is the part number. Get the part number off each gear, then search two ways at TractorHouse. It may not be all that expensive.

I looked up the part number for the crank gear. Copied and pasted to the 6th item down in the menu at left on TH main page. Click on "parts search", then enter the part number in the block on the right side of the page. Here is the returns I got for that search. http://www.tractorhouse.com/list/partssearch.aspx?partnum=261217R1. Being it shows that many in stock at a couple of the salvage yards, they may not be all that much.

The other way to search on there, is to place a "want to buy" ad. You'll need to register, and give some contact info, give the part number and description. Salvage yards with said part will contact you, usually within 36-48 hrs. I've had them call as soon as within an hour of posting. Don't necessarily jump on the first one, as I've found parts prices can differ quite a bit. And shipping costs can vary also, due to location.

You could also do a Google search on the part number. I did that also, and saw one dealer had new crankshaft gears, if used is not what you're looking for.

Old Junk Man · Jul 7, 2015

Drifter52 said:
Waiting on my CV axle now. Went up and finally found the timing mark on the crank gear. That gear is junk now too. Found the idler gear is shot and a contributor to the mess. Bearings on it are toast. Hope to be able to fire it off and get back to the flat area so can crib it and split it. Crank gear is mushroomed to the inside and out and wore to a point. Any good spot to get a set of gears without breaking the bank too bad? Beginning to think might be farther ahead to put the money into the 4 X 4 Yanmar with the cracked head.

You know if it a visible crack that you can get to you can fix it yourself. you get a drill and drill & tap the very end of the crack. insert a tapered cast iron bolt with epoxy in the threads and cut it off flush. then drill next to that making sure you have 25% overlap and continue until you fill the crack. no welding needed.