SuperFlex Tire Ballast

glennmac · Jul 31, 2001

It's been a while since we talked about foam filling for ballast. There is a new process from Arnco called SuperFlex, which supposedly retains the ride characteristics of air. Here is a site that describes it briefly:

http://www.tocebrothers.com/flatproof.asp

I need some ballast in front of my 2910 so I can brush hog without my loader. The tractor is too light in front without ballast. My cutter weighs about 700 lbs., the Freedom Hitches add about 125, and the Freedom Hitches also push the implement (and hence the center of gravity) about 6" further back from the tractor.

The tire company says that SuperFlex will add about 75 lbs. per tire for my 23x8.50x14 front tires, for $105 per tire. This would also, of course, give permanent protection against flats. I think I can get a better price at another place, but I would probably be willing to pay $210 for this, unless there is something bad about this process that I'm not being told.

Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with this gelfoam process?

I also asked about my 12.4x16 rear tires. Would add 270 lbs. per tire at a cost of $295 per tire. That's a lot of weight but also a lot of money. I currently have my rears filled with calcium chloride up to the top of the rim, but I really don't know how much weight this has added. Does anyone have data on this?

Edited by glennmac on 07/31/01 04:32 PM (server time).

glennmac · Jul 31, 2001

Here is the Arnco site:

http://www.arnconet.com/products/flatindex.html

I'm sorry, I'm not sure my first post has the right weight for each front tire. I first posted 125 lbs. and then I edited it to 75 lbs. per tire. Now, I've confused myself and will post the correct number when I get home tonight, where I have my notes from yesterday. The weight number for the rears is correct because I called about that from work today.

mlmartin · Aug 1, 2001

I'm glad that you got an answer to the weight question. I have gotten nothing in writing. The local Arnco dealer said that it weighs the same as water and it weighs the same as calcium chloride. Both statements can't be true.

You might be able to do better on the price. My front tires are slightly larger than your (25-8.50x14) and I was quoted $150 each by the Arnco dealer. I had my local tractor service garage get a quote from the very same Arnco dealer and they were quoted $96 each. They charge extra for removing any sealant or calcium chloride. I have neither.

I've had three flats since April, all in the same tire. $200 for flat proofing and the extra ballast is looking pretty reasonable. Since I have turf tires, I think I would go with the low deflection fill and live with the rougher (like I couild tell/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif) ride. I've already pinched a front tube with the rim trying to micro locate a heavy object with the FEL.

I'm aware of only one real downside to this process. Once filled the tire and rim are essentially one piece. To change a tire will require cutting the old one off the rim. Replacing a bent rim will require an new tire. The counter to that is that the tire will last as long as the carcass, which is probably longer than I'll care about.

Matthew

glennmac · Aug 1, 2001

The 75 lbs. per front tire is what I was quoted.

Another thing: the Kubota manual says not to put ballast in the front tires. I dont know what the issue would be, although I could surmise it has either to do with steering or 4wd. Yet, several people on these boards I think have loaded front tires, and the Deere dealers I talked to didnt think it would be a problem.

hayden · Aug 2, 2001

Glenn,

My loader manual spells out the weight added to each tire (rears at least) for different Calcium solutions. It looks like you can mix more or less calcium per gal of water to get more/less weight and more/less freeze protection.

They describe three different solutions which add 187lb, 196lb, and 207lb per tire for a 12.4-16 tire (size of our R4 rears) filled 75% (just over the rim). I've always just used 200lbs per tire as a rough number when figuring the weight of my tractor and implements.

Assuming the numbers in the Kubota manual are correct, which given my experience so far is not a bad bet, but also NOT a sure thing, then the superflex is noticably heavier than calcium.

Does the web site give wieghts for different sized tires? I've gotten the sense in the few discussions I've had with folks in the trade that numbers like "weight added for an xyz tire" that get flashed around are more educated guesses that actual calculated or measured numbers, so I'd take them with a grain of salt (or should I call it calcium in this context). If the guy conveying a number looked it up in a book or chart, I'd trust it a lot more than if it was produced from memory.

If getting more/less weight than your current fill solution is the prime reason for considering the superflex, you might want to check the weights carefully.

glennmac · Aug 2, 2001

Peter, I am only seriously considering the foam for my front tires to give me front weight so I can brushhog without my fel and also to give flat protection. I dont think I'd spring for an additional 70 lbs per tire for $295.

The site doesnt give weights per tire. The guy on the phone was looking something up. I am going to personally visit the tire place next week and ask to look at the data and the material. Will update here.

hayden · Aug 2, 2001

Do you think front loaded tires is enough weight to make a difference? The loader is around 800-900lbs.

I like the flat protection part - I continue to have troubles on that front.Edited by hayden on 08/02/01 08:11 PM (server time).

Von · Aug 2, 2001

Glenn,
This is the weight I use when I run my 5ft. rotory cutter on my B2710. Seems to work just fine, only adds about 150lbs.

glennmac · Aug 2, 2001

Well, I really want to cut grass (but not brush) with the loader off, and I dont think I need too much weight. The only other alternative is to add weights. (I was thinking of having two hooks welded on my brush guard, into which I could put my old barbell with weights. But I dont like the hassle of putting heavy things on and removing them.) I sort of interested in doing the foam just as an experiment. I've had one flat way out in the field and it was a hassle and a time waster. I also sort of like the idea of just making my tractor permanently more heavy sans loader.

hayden · Aug 4, 2001

Hooks on the front guard is an interesting idea, but I agree it would be nice to permanently attach whatever weights you are going to use. Let us know how you make out. I've been considering more front weight even with the loader to improve traction in the snow.

glennmac · Aug 10, 2001

I stopped by the Arnco dealer today and got a whole bunch of literature, including a sample of the rubber and a 50 page book that lists the weight that the process adds to a variety of tire sizes. Nevertheless, many tire sizes are not listed, including the size of my fronts. So we interpolated and estimated a weight of 65 lbs. for each of my front tires. He quoted $1.25 per pound. He had quoted about $1.12 per pound for my rears over the phone the other week.

He cautioned me that some tire shops may be cheaper because they reuse chopped up foam instead of the pure Arnco mixture. As part of the process, they also pressurize the tires to the recommended pressures.

The chart says 267 lbs for my rear R4. Had I gotten turfs, which are bigger on the 2910, I could have added 302 lbs per tire according to the chart.

If anyone wants me to look up a tire, post it and I'll see if its listed.

mlmartin · Aug 10, 2001

Are 25 8.50x14 tires listed?

Thanks,

Matthew

glennmac · Aug 10, 2001

No. But 26x8.50-14 is 73 lbs. That's the one we estimated my 23 inchers from.

glennmac · Aug 12, 2001

I am repeating below an analysis I gave in the thread called "Filled Tires?":

John, I am currently considering Arnco Superflex filling for my fronts, and I was at one of the oldest tire dealers in CT the other day discussing foam and liquid fill processes. In the process, I picked up the Goodyear Farm Tire Handbook (which is also available online). From these sources and these forums, I see five questions related to hydroinflation.

1. How much weight does it add? Mixed at 3.5 lbs per gallon of water, Ca adds 20% more weight than the water alone. Mixed at 5 lbs. per gallon, it adds 28% more weight. I dont know whether antifreeze adds any additional weight at all. For a 75% hydrofill in the 15x19.5 R4 rear tires on a TC33, the Goodyear charts give the following weights per tire: water alone, 240 lbs; Ca, 294 or 320 lbs, depending on the mixture strength.

2. Does Ca hurt the rim while it is in the tire? Goodyear says: "Either tube-type or tubeless tires may be filled with calcium chloride solution. Rim corrosion is not a problem with tubeless tires as long as the tire is always kept inflated. This keeps the outside air sealed away from the rim and restrains corrosion."

3. What happens to the rim if the tire leaks? Goodyear says: "A rim used tubeless with calcium chloride solution must be rinsed with tap water immediately after dismounting to prevent extremely rapid corrosion." I used a tube with my Ca so I could voluntarily add or remove the solution without worrying about it touching my rims. As to involuntary leaks, whether tubed or tubeless, I guess you have to detect it right away and take quick steps to wash the rim. This may not be practical in a field situation, and would not be an issue with antifreeze.

4. What is the liklihood of getting a leak or flat? Depends. Certainly is more likely with a turf tire than an R4. It's a lot more likely on the fronts than the rears. It would be a lot more likely on a construction site (nails) than on a lawn. It is more likely in thorny brush field than in a grass field. I concluded that, for the Ca weight gain in my R4 rears, the flat risk was worth taking.

5. What happens to the environment in the event of a spill? My understanding is that Ca will burn vegetation but, as a salt, is completely biodegradable. My further understanding is that antifreeze is not biodegradable, and that it can kill, although not burn, vegetation.

The ultimate solution is the Arnco Superflex filling. This would add 370 lbs to each of your rears, prevents flats, cant leak, keeps your tire always at proper inflation pressure, absorbs shock, and supposedly rides just like air. If you have to ask what it costs, you cant afford it.


Edited by glennmac on 08/12/01 02:07 PM (server time).

mlmartin · Aug 15, 2001

Is there a listing for 355/80D-20?

Matthew

glennmac · Aug 15, 2001

Matthew, nothing with a 355 or an 80D in a 20" rim size listed. What kind of tire is that? What is D?

mlmartin · Aug 16, 2001

It's the factory standard equipment turf tire for the rear of my JD 870. It's a Bridgestone tire with a shallow, non-directional chevron lug tread. If I interpret the numbers correctly it's 14 inches wide and 11 inches high. I imagine that it can hold a whole lot more ballast than the standard ag tires for this tractor.

I have no idea what the "D" is for.

Matthew