Surcharge For Prepping Chinese Tractor?

[Diamondpilot]

Thank you. That was helpful. I would LIKE to think that a good dealer would assemble, re torque, drop all fluids, etc I would like to think that his margin and profit would benefit the buyer. Do different dealers give you a "check list" or some sort of statement in which they detail their efforts?
Do they clearly state just what they do to prepare the machine? Do different dealers go to greater lengths? I have heard of replacing belts and battery. Is this kind of thing true? I'd like to believe my questions are the kind most anybody might ask, or maybe I'm just being weird. LOL

I can answer this. A good dealer does just as you said and assembles the tractor, changes all fluids, sets up the steering, lashes the valves, adjust the clutch, torques everything, ect. There are also dealers that just put them together and sell them.

I bought my tractor assembled but not necessarily serviced. The claimed they did all the stuff necessary but I went back and checked it over then changed all the fluids again at 100 hours. I have had zero issues from set up, just a bad thermostat, a blown hydro hose (my fault because I let it rub), and a starter that did not like the cold so I replaced it with a gear reduction unit.

Chris

 

[Smalljobs]

I bought my tractor from Bolton Power and am totally satisfied. The machine was not only set up properly but Bolton has proven to be a valuable resource for me. All the fluids were changed out and I changed them again at 100 hrs. I've only had two fasteners loosen up in 140 hrs and that says something about the initial setup as well.

As far as problems go I had some voltage regulator issues and blown glow plug fuses but after I replaced the regulator the problems went away. The temperature gage never worked right so I replaced it with a mechanical one.

I think it's like anything else...a lot depends on the dealer, his local presence, and his desire to always be there for the customer. Based on my experience with Bolton Power and overall satisfaction with the tractor I don't hesitate to tell others.

 

[bjr]

I've read this thread a couple of times and there's a lot of good advice been given. I was a equipment mechanic for 30 yrs so a crate tractor was the only way to go for me. I had to search hard to find a importer to deal with though. That was five years ago. It was definitly a cost driven purchase. I didn't care about any kind of warranty, just price. That was a big gamble and maybe not the gamble you would want. I think tractors by nature are a hands on continuing maintenance ordeal. Even if it's just connecting to PTO driven implement. Lubrication and the periocic maintenance is expensive and greasy and physical work,just to be able to put a few hours in the seat. Even if you get the worlds best dealer support just plan on getting in there and turning wrenches on your own. There are people that just need to hire out their tractor work and sit in the shade and drink ice tea. I'm not slammin' anyone here, but, go into owning a tractor with your eyes open and know what your willin' to do. bjr

 

[bp fick]

2009 Jinma JM-254 Tractor 4WD Front Loader Creeper Gear - eBay (item 320464908565 end time Dec-30-09 18:00:56 PST)

Heard from this dealer. Responsive, polite, cheap $200 shipping to my house, informative. Reports to be turn-key. This would be an example of a dealer purchase.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-JINMA-284-T...cmdZViewItemQQptZTractors?hash=item4cecc8436d

Here is a crate offer. Not much savings, really. And, no FEL apparently.
Although to be honest, these two are different sizes.

 

[Diamondpilot]

2009 Jinma JM-254 Tractor 4WD Front Loader Creeper Gear - eBay (item 320464908565 end time Dec-30-09 18:00:56 PST)

Heard from this dealer. Responsive, polite, cheap $200 shipping to my house, informative. Reports to be turn-key. This would be an example of a dealer purchase.

NEW JINMA 284 TRACTOR 28HP FREE SHIPING! CRATE TRACTOR! - eBay (item 330390061933 end time Jan-05-10 19:00:23 PST)

Here is a crate offer. Not much savings, really. And, no FEL apparently.
Although to be honest, these two are different sizes.

The 284 and the 254 are the same tractor, chassis and engine. Years ago the 284 had slightly more HP but not these days. The epa regs changed all that. Just be careful ordering one of these. The can be had with 2 different engines, 2 different tranny types, and a host of other options like rear remotes, single or dual hydro pump, different FEL's, ect.

Chris

 

[bp fick]

The 284 and the 254 are the same tractor, chassis and engine. Years ago the 284 had slightly more HP but not these days. The epa regs changed all that. Just be careful ordering one of these. The can be had with 2 different engines, 2 different tranny types, and a host of other options like rear remotes, single or dual hydro pump, different FEL's, ect.

Chris

Chris, careful of which, the 284?

 

[greg_g]

...careful of which, the 284?

Neither. Since 2007, there are only two basic 200 series tractors sold in the US; a 20hp and a 24hp. Some dealers may order up more options than another, which helps explain different selling prices. But regardless of whether it's wearing a 284 decal or a 254 decal, there's only one (EPA approved) engine - and it's (approximately) 24 horsepower. What you have to be careful of, is the unscrupulous seller that would lead you to believe the 284 (decal) is worth more money than the 254 (decal). I'm not aware of any such misdealings associated with the smaller 20hp version.

//greg//

 

[Diamondpilot]

Greg is right on the money. They are the same tractor with the same engine. Years ago the 254 and 284 were the same but the 284 like I had ran a 125 more rpms than a comparable 254. I guess that is where they got the extra HP. Either way I had my tractor on a PTO dyno and it turned 31 HP.

I have heard that the Chinese rate HP on a 12 hour average not peak like others. I guess it is a 24 PTO HP rating average over 12 hours but like I said I seen 31 HP. I have heard this many times before also. A few of the dealers put every tractor they assemble on the dyno to break them in and fine tune them and they report low 30ish HP on the PTO for the 254/284 series tractor.

Chris

 

[greg_g]

I think you may have disremembered a little bit of that Chris. You are correct about the Chinese rating those engines on a twelve hour cycle - as opposed to the one hour cycle. Read this old article - DigitalCommons@University of Nebraska - Lincoln - Nebraska Tractor Test Laboratory Collected by Larsen Museum: Test 095: McCormick Deering 10-20 - and you'll get an idea of how they come up with that number. Short version - the 12 hour rating is an average. A dynamometer result is only one of the tests that ultimately get averaged into the final 12 hour rating.

But don't confuse engine rating with PTO rating. The numbers posted by that dealer with the dyno were purely coincidental. How it really works is this;
1. Substitute the dyno rating (30ish) for the Chinese rating (18.37 KW)
2. apply the standard geared tractor PTO formula (engine hp minus 14% equals approximate PTO hp)
3. you get 30ish - 14% = 25.8ish at the PTO

That's how the Chinese 12 hour rating ended up getting (incorrectly) described as PTO horsepower.

//greg//

 

[Smalljobs]

The original premise of this thread pertained to the value-added by a "dealer". I had plenty of options for my purchase and even visited the Jinma factory and negotiated a "landed in Boston" price that was hard to beat. Since I spend at least 8 wks per year in China and have resources to preinspect the freight I could have easily done a "self import" and assembled it myself. I've got the tools, the building, and enough wrench knowhow to build it. I chose to buy it locally.

Since this thread is not about self import, let's look at the "dealer" approach. I think a real dealer is worth it. They deserve to make a reasonable profit and they're available when you need them. Examples of real dealers are those who are active on this site and others. For example, if I was near Ronald or Chip, I'd probably buy one from them. I was near Bolton Power so we reached an agreement that was good for both of us.

Now it comes down to the definition of a dealer. If the dealer's primary business is that of tractors and farm equipment and they have proven experience with Chinese tractors as a full line or sideline, it's probably a safe path. If the "dealer" is someone with a filling station or body shop or repair shop as a primary business and stack of weathered crates in the back, it would raise some red flags.

If an importer is really presenting themselves as a "dealer" I'd check them out. Are they just using your money to import something and then pass it along to you and basically make a transaction profit. That's fine as long as the buyer understands this type if "dealer" is really an importer and may not be a resource after the sale.

Hope this helps. If one is new at this, I strongly recommend an established dealer.