Surround Sound Advice

[OKnewguy]

I got started in Home A/V back around 90. I worked at a high end company installing and setting up the systems. Back then we had a number of clients that spent $100,000 on there STEREO stuff. These systems were incredible! But we are talking about Krell monoblock amps and Nautilus speakers. Anyway, the market started to move to high end home theater (around 93-94ish) . About 95 I moved to pro audio (stadiums, mega churches) and was out of things for a bit. I invested some pretty big bucks for a system around 97 (dolby pro logic), it was great for around 4 or 5 years, and then I wanted to get a system for the main room and leave one in the tv room. I bought an Onkyo 5.1. The Digital surround was a Major change. I have a couple now.
All of this is to explain the big changes that have happened. You can get darn good sound out of these systems now! It used to cost 10k to have a decent system, and now you can get 95% of that sound for under $1000. These Onkyo systems are the best bang for the buck! If you search around, and review them they get great reviews. I have always liked them, because many of the systems have gone to cube/satellite systems (Bose). This Bose style is crap, They take your mids and add it into the subs and then you have these little mid/high tweeters. I never have liked that design because your mids are directional and now they are all coming from your sub.
Onkyo!
Sorry for long post, and good luck!
Dave

 

[Marveltone]

At the risk of sounding like I'm brand bashing, I'd stay away from Bose. Why? Several reasons:

1. They are built using cheap materials. Most of their speakers have foam surrounds which work fine for a while, but will dry up and disintegrate after about 10 years or so. Most high quality speakers use either butyl rubber or treated paper which last many times longer.

2. Limited sound reproduction. Bose likes to try reproducing full range audio through tiny drivers. Physics will tell you in order to get room shaking bass, you need to move lots and lots of air. The only way to do this is through displacement, usually involving a huge piston (speaker), although an array of smaller speakers have been known to work. Just one or two tiny drivers will not get the floor shaking. Also, without a dedicated tweeter, the highs will be vague or muddy.

3. Overpriced for what you're getting. You can do better.

There are many good companies making excellent speakers for consideration. Celestion, DCM, Klipsch, Polk, Paradigm, Altec Lansing, JBL, Advent, just to name a few.

As far as Denon and Onkyo go, I have a Denon AV receiver and absolutely love it. Very crisp, clean sound. Onkyo has, what I consider to be even better amplifier sections than the Denon, so they are what I would consider to be a slight upgrade from Denon. But this is something you may or may not even hear, depending on the listening environment and speakers. You claim to have a tin-ear, so get whichever has the features you like for the best price, as they are both quality brands.

Yamaha also makes very good products in the higher end of their line-up. Also worth a look.

Want a good stand-alone sub-woofer that will rattle the bomnes? Look no further than Velodyne!

Okay, I'm getting long-winded, so I'll shut up now.

Joe

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Eddie, I just recently bought a Denon receiver on auction and it is OK. Not awesome but good. Of course I'm comparing it to my oldie but goodie McIntosh amp. It is not a real high end model. You can find them for $99 on Amazon.

I just got a home surround system and I had some different parameters while shopping. 1st, I have kids. Kids are hard on speakers, stands, etc. They will tear up most anything. 2nd, I wanted something with as few of wires as possible to eliminate clutter.

Here's what I bought:
Polk Audio : Sound Bars - BestBuy

I got the 6000 model Polk audio. I would rate it a 4.5 out of 5 stars. My other home stereo is old school McIntosh/JBL studio monitors so I know what sounds good to me. It doesn't need a preamp or amp, it uses a fiber optic cable straight from your TV. The base woofer module can be plugged in on another wall or behind a couch or such. I have to admit I was skeptical about its abilities when I bought it. My neighbor came over one day and we were watching an AMA motocross program in HD, we heard a bike get kick started and we both looked out my home's side window looking for a motorcycle. ha ha. Then we looked at each other in amazement!!! So, their technology works. As far as kid proof, it has a durable hard metal mesh over the speaker bar and the kids can't poke their fingers in the speaker cones. Whew! Not to mention they've knocked it off the TV cabinet three times and it still works. I guess I need to mount it to the wall above the TV.

 

[dmccarty]

Just to make it more complex.....

15 or so years ago my old speakers rotted away.

So I went shopping. I went to Best Buys/Circuit City and spent WAY too much time listening to the different speaks they had in the listening room. I listening to classical music, Jazz, Rock, video sources, etc and compared the speakers.

I WANTED small speakers.

I ended up with big honking speakers. Dang things are a pain to place in a room and as a result they are in the study on TOP of a wall unit. :laughing: They sound MUCH better than the surround sound speakers we have in the living room but there is no place for the huge speakers.

The bigger speakers sound so much better but they simply will not fit into the room.

As with so many things, you have to find a balance in audio equipment. I would go listen to the speakers, with a variety of music and audio, and HOPEFULLY what you like will fit the space.

Later,
Dan

 

[2manyrocks]

Paradigm studio monitors aren't huge, but sound good. Add a powered subwoofer if you want thump.

One problem with speaker shopping is your ears get tired--I think sales people intentionally crank them up to make it worse, and in many stores, there is so much other noise, you can't hear yourself think anyway.

 

[Marveltone]

Paradigm studio monitors aren't huge, but sound good. Add a powered subwoofer if you want thump.

:thumbsup:

One problem with speaker shopping is your ears get tired--I think sales people intentionally crank them up to make it worse, and in many stores, there is so much other noise, you can't hear yourself think anyway.

Another trick sales people do is mess with the EQ or tone controls to make the speakers sound "better". Do yourself a favor. When you go into a store to listen to speakers, make sure you listen to music from an album you know. I mean, bring a CD from home. Next, find out which amp is feeding the speakers and make sure all the tone controls are set flat (no boost or cut). Remember, you want to hear what the speakers really sound like; not what the sales people want you to think they sound like.

Joe

 

[aczlan]

When you go into a store to listen to speakers, make sure you listen to music from an album you know. I mean, bring a CD from home.

A good one is Mannheim Steamroller - Hallelujah (2007 - Mannheim Steamroller - Hallelujah - YouTube)
The sales droid will look at you like you are nuts, but that song hits high, low, in the middle and needs to be clear. Any distortion is obvious.

Aaron Z

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm leaning towards Denon right now. I go from liking the Onkyo, to getting nervous about it. There are some complaints about quality, and I'm reading over and over again about how hot they get. One of the big selling points to me about my LCD tv compared to the Plasma was just touching the screens and comparing how hot Plasma gets compared to mine.

I'm also beginning to wonder if I'm just splitting hairs and over thinking this. I know that I don't have much of an ear for music, and this isn't for music. I want to feel the sound when watching a blueray. From everything I'm reading over at AVForums, just about everything does this.

I'm getting real close to buying. Maybe if I see a good sale over the weekend, I'll go for it!!!

Thank you,
Eddie

 

[ttriff]

One of the better options for lower cost speakers is the Pioneer SP-BS41-LR Speaker System

Several magazines including Stereophile have tested these and given them good reviews

Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha are all good and will do what you need.

Frequently you can buy last years model receivers at significant discounts. B-Stock/refurbished or demo units are also good buys

Plasmas get hotter, they are also much more fragile than LCD. Plasmas can't be transported laying down without a high potential for them to be damaged.

FWTW, I'm a recovering audio/video-holic who's been building stereo speakers for 50yrs. As a result, I know a thing to two about this stuff ......

 

[cdaigle430]

I'm no AV expert but many recommend turning down (all the way) the inferrior TV's speakers and use the center channel

Yes,
The center channel speaker and and center channel speaker AV output are desined specifically for that.