Swimming Pool Suggestions

[KEROSENEDRVR]

The wife and I are going to have a inground pool built. I'm looking for any suggestions/advice/comments you may have. We live in N. Ca, just north of Sacramento. Unfortunately pool construction companies are very few and the horror stories of pool construction abound...We haven't talked with a specific company yet but expect to soon.

 

[BTDT]

Find someone (home owner) in the area with a pool, and ask them who they used and how they like the workmanship.

 

[Bird]

The wife and I are going to have a inground pool built. I'm looking for any suggestions/advice/comments you may have. We live in N. Ca, just north of Sacramento. Unfortunately pool construction companies are very few and the horror stories of pool construction abound...We haven't talked with a specific company yet but expect to soon.

Horror stories? Yep, that's a fact. When we decided we wanted a pool in 1978, I knew an electrical contractor who got his start and still did a lot of contracting with pool companies to do their electrical work. He also had a pool in his backyard, so I asked which company he'd recommend, and he said, "It really doesn't matter. There isn't a *** in the business that won't lie to you, and no matter which one you choose, you'll want to kill'em before you go swimming." He was right.

I can assure you that this is one time you want to very carefully read ALL the fine print before you sign a contract. Of course I'm sure many things have changed in the last 30 years, but the "standard" contracts back then called for one-third of the payment when the hole was dug, another third when the material was delivered to the site, and the final third upon completion. Thank goodness I required them to change that to say NO payment was due until I went swimming. One house in the neighborhood had a mud hole in their backyard for over 2 years. In spite of what the contract said, they tried (unsuccessfully) to charge me extra for moving an underground electric line and for installing an electric subpanel for the pump and filter.

And be sure you really want a swimming pool. They are a great idea, and lots of fun, for a few years, then they're usually no longer used, are still an expense to maintain, etc. so you want to be prepared to sell the house and move. Now maybe you'll be the exception to the rule, but most people who have had a pool and move, NEVER want a second pool. I'm not sorry we did it. Our girls learned to swim like ducks and really enjoyed it for a time, and then the last 2 or 3 years I think I got in it once doing some maintenance and that was the only time anyone was in it.

 

[JESSE1]

We built our pool in August 1980. 18x36 oval inground with a vinyl liner. I've had the liner replaced once. Three pumps and filters, two Polaris vac-sweeps in that time. Have we enjoyed the pool? Yes. Would I build another one? NO. The cost of water, electricity and chemicals gets hard to take real quick.

 

[Jimbrown]

One deal with a real pool company not some general contractor who does a few every now and then. The pool concrete and other aspects of pools is different from regular concrete construction. Plus a good pool company will have lots of options on concrete, tile and pool surfaces. We just built on last year and are quite happy with it. Make sure you buy everything you want at once and not try to just buld the basic pool and then add on. Have it at least plumbed for solar heat even if you do not buy the panels when it is installed. You need to decide where you want to put the pumps ect. and make the pool guys put them there. They will try to put them in the easiest and most convient place for them. Be prepared to have your whole yard destroyed. Here is a pic of mine.

 

[EddieWalker]

Jim,

Very nice pool. I love the way it looks like it belongs there with the landscaping and hardscaping all tying it together.

Kerosenedrvr,

I'm going to put a pool in too. It's not something I want, but since I have no choice, I want to make it as nice as possible.

One thing that I found out is that the insurance rates for a wading pool are much, much cheaper than one over 4 feet deep. Mine will be four feet deep!!!

There are all sorts of forums on pools and pool companies. The more I searched, the worse it got. It seems the most common complaint I read is where you give the pool company a deposit to build your pool and agree on a time to start, and it doesn't happen. Workmanship and fixing problems are an issue with all of them.

Find out who your local builders are and googel each and every one of them. I did that with the ones in the phone book and didn't find one without a list of complaints. It's really scary and I'm seriuosly thinking about hiring out the subs and doing it myself.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[WayneB]

The wife and I are going to have a inground pool built. I'm looking for any suggestions/advice/comments you may have. We live in N. Ca, just north of Sacramento. Unfortunately pool construction companies are very few and the horror stories of pool construction abound...We haven't talked with a specific company yet but expect to soon.

We put our pool in in the 1980's and two years ago we changed the liner. Same guy that installed the pool did the liner. Still in business and he turned 72 last year.

It is a 20 x 40 what they called a teacup pool back then (don't make that type anymore. It is real deep at the diving board area about 101/2 feet and then goes up to 4 feet at the other end rather quickly.

We live in cold country so the pool is used a bit in June and then July and August. I close it up in September which requires pumping water out, blowing out the pipes, antifreeze in the lines and I take off the pump and store it inside. All and all it takes me the better part of a weekend to complete the closing of the pool.

When the kids were young they were in the pool almost everyday all day long. Now the wife and I get into the pool some but certainly not everyday.

Once installed make sure you get a good automatic cleaning system. I purchased an Aquabot system and have never vacuum cleaned the pool since. I am on my third one, heck it is worse than the dishwasher! When it breaks down I am in the car and on my way to the pool place to pick up parts or replace the unit.

If you are going to go with chlorine I would suggest that you check into an automatic dispensing system. Test the water often and stay on top of the PH stabilizing chemicals.

We used Bacracil in our pool for a few years and then had a major problem and the only thing we could do was to switch back to chlorine. Chemicals are expensive and you will need to learn about all of the different ones that you might need to keep the water clean. You will have oxidizers, clarifiers, and shock just to name a few.

We call it our black-hole in the backyard! Electric bill goes up, propane gas bill is high, chemical cost is extremely high, if you have to buy pool water that is high and be sure you know where it comes from and that it doesn't pollute your pool. Gosh it is going to be fun for sure.

We live in the country and we decided to get a pool mainly because my wife couldn't keep up with the demands to go to different swimming places every hot day. Once the pool was in we became the house where all of the kids hung out. It was tons of fun, the kids are great swimmers and I don't regret putting it in, but as we get older and it isn't used too much I wish there was an easy way to fill it in and be done with it.

 

[marks]

Consider having discharges looped, and having two plumbed into the bottom -for better circulation. Suctions: skimmer, auto cleaner, side wall, and main drain all with ball valves. If valving and plumbing is exposed to the sun, paint the pvc, and use high quality schedule 80 ball valves, otherwise the handles break over time. Use lots of unions, especially on both sides of the pump, it makes life simplier. Good quality ball valves and unions can be found on ebay.

If possible think about solar, if not then provide future stub-outs. Automatic cover is fantastic, keeps it warmer, safer, cleaner, and less chemicals - Cover Pools is the mfg. If using solar, think of a smaller pump so that it can run longer and not waste power. Over size the wiring, so there is future flexibility in pump sizing.

Hose bib on pump discharge before filter, allows for easier priming.

 

[rox]

marks,
you sure know a lot about swimming pools. How did you get so smart?

 

[mathey]

A note on pool chemicals...

It doesn't need to be expensive...we've had our pool for 4 years, and I've never used anything but grocery store bleach, A&H baking soda and 20 Mule Team borax...during the summer months it requires about $5-7 per week (depending on the cost of bleach at the time) if you keep to a regular schedule. Let it get out of hand and the cost goes up a bit (higher dosing of bleach) plus time and patience. it can be even more expensive if you want to get it cleared quickly (pool store chemicals-ugh).

Your best bet is to buy a high quality water test kit (not the dip strips!) and learn how to do proper water testing yourself, then decide what methods to take to correct the problems you may have. Keep in mind when getting your water tested at the pool store - their main goal i$ to $ell you chemical$.

 

[Jimbrown]

Eddie MY pool did not effect my insurance but that is different from what you are trying to do. I did see an example of the 4 ft rule last summer. We stayed at a very high class hotel in Napa Valley while my wife was buying a friesian and they had a very large pool with all kinds of water feateres ect but the it was not over 4 ft deep in any part. That was the first time I had seen that.

 

[Jimbrown]

Kerosenedrvr, To me the pool was fairly painless. We did have some dissagrements with the pool company. But the hard stuff was meeting the state and county safety requirements. You want to be sure that you know what they are and who is responsible for meeting them you or the pool company. Some examples. Here you must have a 5ft high non climable fence with no more than 4 in spacing on the bars. all gates must be auto closing with latches over 54 in tall. If there are any children under 13 you must have a fence between the house and pool. If no children and you sign an affidavit to the fact then you can use the house doors as barriers but the door handles must be 54 inches high and you must have auto closeres on all doors. I must admit that I changed my doors for the inspection but changed them back afterwards 54 in high door handles an self closing doors just don't work for me. Plus there is not anyone under the age of 30 within 15 miles of me.

 

[kenmac]

I had a pool (18x36) inground installed about 5 yrs ago (I guess).I had to pay so much $ once the hole was dug & the rest of the $ when finished.It cost $18,500 for the pool ,slide, polaris & booster pump , safety cover with a pump to pump off rain water, steps, light, ladder,dive board concrete 10' on 1 end 8' on 1 end 8' on the sides . Mine is a plastic wall pool which he said cost a little more than steel wall pools .I had no problems with the contractor at all & he did a great job. He & his sons did all the work them selves. I talked to several pool companies that contracted out all the work, all they did was over see the job. I think hiring the guy & his sons & them doing all the work is what made all go smooth. I must say, that the polaris cleaner has made a big difference in taking care of the cleaning chores.I purchase most of my chemicles in bulk at sams club.

 

[bmac]

Find someone (home owner) in the area with a pool, and ask them who they used and how they like the workmanship.

I think this is the best advice given so far (not that the other replies weren't helpful). We had a pool at our previous home. We picked our installer based on 2 elements- (1) he installed pools for 2 neighbors and they were impressed with the timeliness and quality of the installation, and (2) price was reasonable.

Where we erred was in not checking with clients who had pools installed many months or a year or 2 previously. Our neighbors had just had their pools done right before we started ours, so they had no knowlege of how the installer handled problems after the sale. This proved to be our biggest problem. We had difficulties getting the guy back to fix problems. Big headache.

Little things are going to pop up and this is probably true for all installations. I think my biggest complaint was with the quality of the concrete work. First, I don't think the soil was given sufficient time to settle and compact. I take the blame for this as I was looking for an installer who could get the pool done in the shortest period of time. also, I didn't know he didn't use rebar or wire reinforcement in the concrete. He convinced me that the fiberglass impregated concrete was strong enough that metal reinforcement was not needed. We had problems with cracking soon after the pool was completed. We also has surface voids appear due to little clumps of soil that had migrated to the surface during the pour. An egg-shell thin layer of the concrete covered the soil clumps during the finishing (we had a stamped surface). With foot traffic, the thin areas broke, leaving little dirt-filled defects in the surface. Not a huge problem, but certainly an esthetic one.

In 4 years, we had our Polaris pump replaced twice and our main pump replaced once. I don't think this is typical, but did happen to us and certainly added to the expense. Our gas bill was outrageous when we heated the pool so we certainly cut back on heating once we learned about this.

The best decision we made was having a salt chloination system put in. The benefits of this are (1) reduced chemical cost - uses water softener salt (cheap) (2) no storage / handling of caustic chlorine, (3) the water is more pleasant to swim in (no chlorine smell, less eye irritation, easy on the skin) and (4) it is almost maintenance-free as the thing runs automatically. The up front cost of the salt chlorination system is about $1K, but in my opinion is worth the investment.

You will never recoup the money you spend on the pool when you sell the house. And, it eliminates a large number of potential buyers who have no interest in having the expense / headaches of a pool.

To me, the real benefits of pool ownership is it is a magnet for your children's friends. I like knowing where my kids are and I'm most comfortable when they are home. I would much rather my kids be at home with their friends at our house than vice versa as I know what kind of supervision they are receiving here. As they get older (teenage), I think this is even more important. Other than that, as has been said, pools are a huge money pit.

Thinking back on how our pool was used, I would definately recommend an integrated spa - all the kids eventually migrated to the spa after playing and it proved to be a popular place for the parents. We also had a diving board and a slide. While these 2 items have the highest risk for injury, in our case, they were also heavily used by the kids. With close supervision and a few rules, these 2 add ons can provide a lot of fun safely.

If I had the budget to design what I would call the ultimate pool, it would be designed to incorporate a large, shallow area that could be set up for pool volley ball, it would have a long, straight section for swimming laps, there would be a deep end for the slide and diving board (or maybe a diving rock) and it would have the aforementioned spa. Add a large concrete pool deck with outdoor kitchen, plenty of chairs / tables for outdoor eating and a bath house with restroom to keep the wey kids from going inside to do their business and you would have the perfect set-up. Of course, this is probably a $150K project so we won't have one like this. But, for thos who can....

Good luck with your pool.

 

[KEROSENEDRVR]

Absolutely excellent advice....I greatly appreciate the info.....I have another question on the same subject. When the pool is finished the county assessor comes out. Does he add the assessed value of the pool to your existing assessment, OR does the whole place get reassessed? I built my house about 5 years ago before the values skyrocketed and hate the thought of the taxman raking me over the coals....Thanks again.

 

[KEROSENEDRVR]

By the way....I have three young sons age 12, 10, and 8....I have a beautiful wife who had 6 vertebrae fused about 9 months ago....I think they will wear out the pool in no time flat.

 

[marks]

I failed to mention that your water access is crucial when filling and maintaining the pool. I'm on a well, and have to treat differently than if it were on a municipal system. Moreover, I trucked the water in for the initial fill.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

[It's really scary and I'm seriously thinking about hiring out the subs and doing it myself.]

That's what I did back in 1990. I talked to 2 contractors that said that it would be over 40k for what I wanted. Pool that looks like a pond with remote small pond with stream beds flowing into the main pool. Well that was to much $$$ for me. I dug the hole myself, hired subs myself, put in the small pond & stream beds myself. Less than 14k. I have never to this date been sorry that I put this pool in. Yes there are years that I only go in a few times, and others, like last year for example that I went in 50-60 times. The wife always uses it on a regular basis. But I would have it even if I never went in, it just looks good and is a nice part of our landscaping.

My only advice is to research everything and do it right the first time. There are to many things that can be done wrong, and it would be no fun to correct.

Good luck

 

[WayneB]

By the way....I have three young sons age 12, 10, and 8....I have a beautiful wife who had 6 vertebrae fused about 9 months ago....I think they will wear out the pool in no time flat.

You have many years of active pool use with three boys! If they are like our boys (we put our pool in when they were 4 years old (twins) and our daughter was 8.) They would start using the pool when the water was in the fifties.

Back then I would open the pool in May and it would stay open until October. All of their friends wanted to come to our house as we had the pool. You have to be there to watch them instruct new comers to the rules of the pool use and they will all have a great time.

When they got older it was even hard (boys will be boys) Diving, doing flips everything dangerous, we certainly put our foot down to most of it. I would be careful about adding a slide to the pool. There is always the chance of someone falling off from the top of the slide onto the concrete.

Concrete problems: We had the same problem here, mainly on the far side of the pool as they only put a 36 inches wide pad. It sunk about two inches and had to be broken up and I did the cement work myself.

You might not have the same problems we do with closing the pool for the winter months. Just pumping out 10 or 12 thousand gallons of water takes a bit of time. I have a spring that we use to top off and fill the pool. Being on a farm we have a few barn surface wells. Around here they get around $400 a tanker load for pool water. I make sure the pipes are properly drained, blown out and go the extra yard by adding RV antifreeze to the lines. It is pretty cheap insurance.

Someone mentioned location of the filter system. It is good to put it where you don’t have to hear the pump and also a place where you can back drain the filter system, if required. I built a pad for the filter and heater then dug a trench to the backside of the yard to run off the backwash water.

 

[Nat]

I just saw this thread and thought I may be of some help. I sold and installed pools for 20 years and my son took over and has been at it for 7 years now. I think one of the most important things is to buy a pool from the guy that will install it. Around here in NC we have several companies who sell pools and sub out the installation. I wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole. When you talk to the pool seller see if the person you talk to is giong to be the person who installs it. The owner/operator of any business has a more vested interest in performing a good job than any subcontractor.
Talk to as many pool owners in the area as you can and see what sanitizing agents they use and the cost involved. Different areas use different sanitizers and what I may recomend from here may not be the best for you in your area.
Check with your insurance company. It doesn't make your insurasnce go up here but you may want to increase your coverage. It costs very little to increase your coverage by 100%, but in other areas of the country it is different.
The most important thing to me is to feel comfortable with the people you do business with. Develop a rapport with them, make them your pal.
Read all the fine print and don't sign anything you don't feel comfortable with, and don't buy a " special " A guy I know biught a pool form one of the TV adds, they told him he was getting a huge discount because they wanted to use it in a TV add. He paid 6,000.00 more than I sold the same pool for.
Find a local company , they are out there you just havn't heard about them, they probably don't advertise cause they have enough work, talk to them, listen to them, let them know of any concerns, make sure you are confident with them before you do anything, and you will end up with a pool that you and the family will enjoy for years. And, keep in mind, you will know where your kids are. They and most of their freinds will be at your house, much better that most places they could be. Later, Nat