switching to synthetic
- Thread starter rayc45
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20 20
Elite Member
Rayc45, please don't take my post the wrong way. I'm not trying to argue, just throwing an opinion out. I have also thought of switching, but don't want to, just because. Synthetic sounds like a good deal for an engine, but I still have wonders/doubts. I feel more time between oil changes would be nice but I enjoy maintanence time on my machines. I probably go over board with maintanence but would rather do that instead of having down time because of broken parts. We are sold so much stuff{nice word} miracle wax, perfect oil additives, gas milage increasers, perfect rust fighters..........The list goes on and on, how do we know what is good and what isn't? Snake oil and sales cimics make tons of money each year, but are they truely needed? Again synthetic sounds like a good thing. My concern is why won't some manufactures let it be used during break in{void warrenty}? I understand about ring seating etc....but lets face it an engines life can be determined on how it is broke in. So if dino oil is recommened for the hardest part of an engines life then why is it so bad in the long run.
devildog1
Veteran Member
Below is a reply I received from a AMSOIL tech. answering my question about using AMSIOIL synthetic in my new B3200 HST. Draw your own conclusion, NOTE the answer concerning that I only have 6 hours on my new B3200.
DevilDog
Rick;
My suggestion is AMSOIL 5W3.0 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil (HDD) in your climate. It can be used after accumulating only 6 hours on the engine.
Thank you for this opportunity to respond to your question(s). As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
Byron Selbrede
Technical Services
The accuracy of this e-mail response is dependent upon the information provided. AMSOIL INC. is not responsible for wrong recommendations that were based on inaccurate or incomplete information
DevilDog
Rick;
My suggestion is AMSOIL 5W3.0 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil (HDD) in your climate. It can be used after accumulating only 6 hours on the engine.
Thank you for this opportunity to respond to your question(s). As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
Byron Selbrede
Technical Services
The accuracy of this e-mail response is dependent upon the information provided. AMSOIL INC. is not responsible for wrong recommendations that were based on inaccurate or incomplete information
WH401
Platinum Member
"20 20", your missing the entire point, no one is saying that Dino is bad. Dino is a perfectly fine oil if you don't want to spend the money on synthetic, or don't mind changing your oil every 3 - 5k miles, or don't live in a cold climate. Synthetic oil is for the person who doesn't fit into any of those categories.
Is synthetic oil priced higher than a dino? Most definitely yes, but that's also where the "longer oil change intervals" comes into affect. Synthetic is a chemical composition, being completely made in a laboratory to strict, specific specifications for it's required use. One benefit of this is that it has much smaller, more uniform size molecules compared to the large, wide ranging size of the molecules of a dino oil. These smaller molecules provided better wear protection as well as a much lesser amount of friction than dino oil. This increased wear protection and less friction is the reason why some manufacturer's suggest against using synthetic oil in an engine until it's broken-in. Dino oil, while good, instills more wear and tear on an engine, especially during break-in, which at that time is a good thing. The smaller molecules of synthetic also allow it to flow much faster, and easier in severely cold weather.
As far as my personal experience with synthetic oil. I ran dino Shell Rotella T 15w-40 in my 01' Ford Excursion w/ the 7.3 for the first 75,000 miles of it's life. The Rotella was great, but the problems with it were that it had to be changed out every 5k miles, (about 2 or more times a year), and it flowed horrible in weather below 32 degrees F. In July of 07' I switched it to Amsoil's 15W-40 HD Diesel and Marine oil w/ Amsoil's oil filter. I ran that for 1 year, (about 12k miles), and did an oil analysis when I changed the oil. The analysis came back within spec and fine. I again refilled the Excursion with the same oil and ran it for a year w/ the same amount of miles. It got changed this past July and I had another oil analysis ran on that oil. It again came back fine and within spec.
With just that experience, I have easily seen the benefit's of synthetic. Not only is great to only have to change the oil once a year, but the better protection in cold winter month's just simply can't be matched by that of a dino oil.
If you like dino oil, that's fine, dino oil is great, there's nothing wrong with that. Synthetic is just better in the area's where it's most important for an oil to be good, and that's why it's a highly like, highly used alternative.
Is synthetic oil priced higher than a dino? Most definitely yes, but that's also where the "longer oil change intervals" comes into affect. Synthetic is a chemical composition, being completely made in a laboratory to strict, specific specifications for it's required use. One benefit of this is that it has much smaller, more uniform size molecules compared to the large, wide ranging size of the molecules of a dino oil. These smaller molecules provided better wear protection as well as a much lesser amount of friction than dino oil. This increased wear protection and less friction is the reason why some manufacturer's suggest against using synthetic oil in an engine until it's broken-in. Dino oil, while good, instills more wear and tear on an engine, especially during break-in, which at that time is a good thing. The smaller molecules of synthetic also allow it to flow much faster, and easier in severely cold weather.
As far as my personal experience with synthetic oil. I ran dino Shell Rotella T 15w-40 in my 01' Ford Excursion w/ the 7.3 for the first 75,000 miles of it's life. The Rotella was great, but the problems with it were that it had to be changed out every 5k miles, (about 2 or more times a year), and it flowed horrible in weather below 32 degrees F. In July of 07' I switched it to Amsoil's 15W-40 HD Diesel and Marine oil w/ Amsoil's oil filter. I ran that for 1 year, (about 12k miles), and did an oil analysis when I changed the oil. The analysis came back within spec and fine. I again refilled the Excursion with the same oil and ran it for a year w/ the same amount of miles. It got changed this past July and I had another oil analysis ran on that oil. It again came back fine and within spec.
With just that experience, I have easily seen the benefit's of synthetic. Not only is great to only have to change the oil once a year, but the better protection in cold winter month's just simply can't be matched by that of a dino oil.
If you like dino oil, that's fine, dino oil is great, there's nothing wrong with that. Synthetic is just better in the area's where it's most important for an oil to be good, and that's why it's a highly like, highly used alternative.
WilliamBos
Super Member
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You cringe on starting an engine on -50{ I take it that's F not C} but what did those folks do way back when? I start my engines at minus-10-20-30 and they're like a timex... they just keep on ticking. Oops maybe I should have used the bunnymaybe he's running on synthetic??? No matter what we think of todays tech, years of proven service can NOT be just thrown to the wind. I'm not knocking synthetic just wonder why all of a sudden dino is junk?
-50C = - 58F. The two temps are equal at -40.
Either way, I will NOT run dino oil ever again. Especially in the cold. I have no issues starting at tha temp with synthetics.
20 20
Elite Member
Thanks WH401; It sounds like your educated on this stuff. I do live in a cold climate and of course I want what is best for my engines. I'd much rather pay for oil{synthetic or dino} then have a blown engine.
I am sorry for the way I type, I'm a blunt person and of course we can't show emotion over a key board. I do not mean any harm with my posts just trying to learn and at the same time give an opinion.
Thanks to EVERYONE for all the info on this post and the others about synthetic. Believe it or not your atleast helping one ole bonehead learn something.
I am sorry for the way I type, I'm a blunt person and of course we can't show emotion over a key board. I do not mean any harm with my posts just trying to learn and at the same time give an opinion.
Thanks to EVERYONE for all the info on this post and the others about synthetic. Believe it or not your atleast helping one ole bonehead learn something.
20 20
Elite Member
WilliamBos; I understand. I can see that you live in the tropics up there What did you use before synthetic was around? Did your engine/s get tore up because of cold starting? Did you use synthetic during engine break in time?
Okay 1 million $ question so what is everyones choice on a synthetic oil? Type weight ball park price, best palce to buy?
What did you use before synthetic was around? Did your engine/s get tore up because of cold starting? Did you use synthetic during engine break in time?Okay 1 million $ question so what is everyones choice on a synthetic oil? Type weight ball park price, best palce to buy?
brandoro
Platinum Member
I have used synthetics in everything I own since the early '80's. The most noticeable difference is how much easier everything moves at extreme cold temperatures. Take a bottle of dino oil and a bottle of synthetic oil and place in deep freeze overnight and see how they flow then think about how long it will take each oil to get pumped up in your engine or transmission. Less noticeable is how much better synthetics protect at high temperatures and how much cooler equipment runs with synthetics. I used to have a problem with hitting a false neutral on my bike after running highway speeds for an hour or more, when I switched it to synthetic the problem ceased. I believe the problem was heat related. My most scientific test was using oil analysis on a standard change of dino oil then on an extended change (24,000 miles and one year) with synthetic oil, the synthetic sample came back good for continued use and had less wear metals and soot than the standard change of dino oil. Engine was a turbo charged diesel. I won't go back to dino oil for long term use either.
My B3030 will get its 100 hour service quite soon, it is at 91 hours right now, and I will fill it with 100% synthetic just in time for winter.
My B3030 will get its 100 hour service quite soon, it is at 91 hours right now, and I will fill it with 100% synthetic just in time for winter.
jaquetarr
Silver Member
20-20
You've dissected that post pretty good. I've got two ex wives (still working on #3) and 4 teenage kids. So I'll try to answer your points:
1) You get more wear with mineral oil so it is used during the break in period. Either oil will work perfectly well at lubing an engine and has for years.
2) see #1
3) it equals fewer oil changes IF filters are changed, the oil kept clean (3-5 micron) and oil condition is monitored. Dirty syn oil will wear an engine as bad as dirty mineral oil
4) they all will work; the comment was to note that not all syn oils have the same base stock, hence different character.
5) I got the truck used and did not know what was in it. I know Texas summers are hot, hauling causes high tranny temps and I didn't want to have any problems.
Syn oil is not snake oil, it is a lubricant with special properties.
Rgds,
tim
You've dissected that post pretty good. I've got two ex wives (still working on #3) and 4 teenage kids. So I'll try to answer your points:
1) You get more wear with mineral oil so it is used during the break in period. Either oil will work perfectly well at lubing an engine and has for years.
2) see #1
3) it equals fewer oil changes IF filters are changed, the oil kept clean (3-5 micron) and oil condition is monitored. Dirty syn oil will wear an engine as bad as dirty mineral oil
4) they all will work; the comment was to note that not all syn oils have the same base stock, hence different character.
5) I got the truck used and did not know what was in it. I know Texas summers are hot, hauling causes high tranny temps and I didn't want to have any problems.
Syn oil is not snake oil, it is a lubricant with special properties.
Rgds,
tim
Raw Dodge
Platinum Member
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20 20 have you ever run 5w40 full synthetic in a diesel tractor or pickup in the winter,after having run conventional 15/40 in the same vehicle? I ask this because you stated you havent seen any reason to run it other that oil change interval.Im in NY and I dont think it is as cold here as where you are,yet I am seeing a huge improvement in the way my diesel truck and tractor cold start by using synthetic oil.The difference is night and day,I dont know how you cannot noitce this,as the cranking rpm is much faster,and the engine starts faster and easier.Fuel mileage improved slightly as well.I use my truck to plow snow,and either run 5w40 Delvac,Rottella Syn,or Shaeffers 15w40 7000 synblend.All these oils make an improvement so big and noticeable that I dont need my block heater anymore on my cummins,saving me over 150.00 in the winter months.(I still plug in the night before a snow storm for the instant heat).I almost question whether youve actually used full synthetic oil and gave it a fair shot.
The other side is turbochargers love full synthetics as well as it doesnt coke in the turbo until over 400 something degrees as opposed to 300 something.I have a pyrometer on my truck,and waiting for 300 is forever with my setup,with synthetics i only need wait until 400 to shutdown.
The other side is turbochargers love full synthetics as well as it doesnt coke in the turbo until over 400 something degrees as opposed to 300 something.I have a pyrometer on my truck,and waiting for 300 is forever with my setup,with synthetics i only need wait until 400 to shutdown.
