switching to synthetic

   / switching to synthetic #21  
Thanks again for the answers, sorry Jaquetarr I didn't mean to say that synthetic was snake oil. I was just saying there are a lot of products claiming this and that, that are snake oil.

No Raw Dodge I have not run the synthetic that's why I have so many{probably to some} stupid questions. I do have block heaters on all my diesels{except mini ex} so that may be what is saving me on start ups? If I do change over to synthetic then I quess a 5w40 would be an exceptable type? What name brands should I look for and what should I stay away from?
It'll be some time before my next changes plus I stocked up on rottella.
 
   / switching to synthetic #22  
I do have block heaters on all my diesels{except mini ex} so that may be what is saving me on start ups? If I do change over to synthetic then I quess a 5w40 would be an exceptable type? What name brands should I look for and what should I stay away from?
It'll be some time before my next changes plus I stocked up on rottella.

20/20

having the block heater is a big plus on both easy starts and reduced engine wear for cold starts. I like many others prefer the synthetic. I have used for years in my diesel trucks and do notice a big difference over non synthetics. as far as brands, to some degree I think it is like beer. everybody has a favorite. I don't rely on the ability to do extended changes and change pretty much as I would regular oil. I have used several but seem to stick with Rotella synthetic. mainly because I believe it is a good oil and also because I can get it pretty cheap at Walmart of many other places that may have it on sale. We can get some cold weather in the Winter and so I use the 5w40 in the Winter.
 
   / switching to synthetic #23  
WilliamBos; I understand. I can see that you live in the tropics up there :D What did you use before synthetic was around? Did your engine/s get tore up because of cold starting? Did you use synthetic during engine break in time?

Okay 1 million $ question so what is everyones choice on a synthetic oil? Type weight ball park price, best palce to buy?



I would have ran syn @ 50 hours, but since it had 63 on it when we got it, the 50 hour service was free. Same with the truck, was used when bought, but has had syn since then. :)
 
   / switching to synthetic #24  
Amazing after almost 40 years of synthetic oil there is so much mis-info still floating around out there.

Dino oil to properly break in a motor is rubbish. Old wive's tales. Some of the utter BS I have heard from the mouths of service personnel is really appalling! ....So, what your service guy is REALLY telling you, is that you NEED to have an oil break down sooner, in order to ensure proper motor break in. No, it doesn't make sense at all, does it?!! If it did, then the really short life you get with old-fashioned Group I Dino oils ought to make your motor break in REALLY well. Yeah, right!!

The old wives tale of break in has been debunked years ago. Auto manufacturers add synthetic at the factory with ZERO mileage on them:


* Acura RDX
* Aston Martin
* All Bentley Vehicles
* All Cadillac Vehicles
* Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
* Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS
* Chrysler 300C SRT-8
* Cobalt SS S/C Coupe
* Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Charger SRT-8, and Magnum SRT-8
* Jeep Cherokee SRT-8
* Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
* Mercedes SLR
* Mitsubishi Evolution
* Pontiac Solstice GXP
* All Porsche Vehicles
* Saturn Ion Red Line and Saturn Sky Red Line
* Viper SRT-10

Don't take any ones word read the spec sheets for yourself on the oil you are using and a comparable synthetic.

I just checked a popular DINO oil against a popular SYNTHETIC and the numbers don't lie.

Flash point on DINO oil was around 400 degrees F.
Flash point on SYNTHETIC was around 500 degrees F.

Pour point DINO oil -24 C
Pour Point synthetic -45 C

So there you have it, Synthetic will always win hands down on the numbers alone. Now as far as all the other things like longer change intervals etc. are a bonus.

Because a synthetic oil's molecules are much more consistent in size and shape, they are better able to withstand extreme engine temperatures. By contrast, the unstable molecules in conventional oil can easily vaporize or oxidize in extreme heat.

An 0W-30 synthetic oil is capable of pumping easily at -62 degrees F and flowing at even lower temperatures. Conventional oils are essentially frozen solid at that temperature, so there's simply no conventional equivalent to this new grade. There are 5W-30 conventional and synthetic oils, but even here, the synthetic has a real-world advantage: Mobil 1's 5W-30 will pump at -58-degrees F, compared to about -35-degrees F for a conventional oil.

Because a synthetic oil is chemically produced, there are no contaminants in the oil. By contrast, conventional oils contain small amounts of sulfur, wax, and asphaltic material that can promote detonation as well as varnish and sludge buildup. With no wax, synthetics will flow at much lower temperatures than conventional oils.

In terms of peak numbers, Car Craft found that the engine gained nearly 7 hp with the thinner conventional oil, and was up nearly 10 hp with the synthetic. No peak torque gains were observed by changing from 20W-50 to 10W-30 conventional; however, the synthetic was up 15 lb-ft of torque at the peak. Looking at average numbers helps explain where the gains occurred--both the thinner conventional and synthetic oils broadened the torque and power bands overall, but the thin Mobil 1 showed the greatest improvement under 4,700 rpm, indicating that the thinner oil provides less initial drag for the engine to overcome.

However, thinner oil also translates to lower oil pressure: The 0W-30 oil developed 10 psi less than the baseline 20W-50. Only 46 psi was on tap at 6,200 rpm--kind of shaky as most gear heads like to see at least 10 psi per 1,000 rpm. Still, the engine ran OK, and the bearings looked fine on teardown, seemingly verifying synthetic manufacturers' claims that their products' greater shear strength more than makes up for lower viscosity. Is 10 hp and 15 lb-ft worth paying two to four times more for a quart of oil? Or the potential for extended engine life? You be the judge.
 
   / switching to synthetic #25  
Cat Driver,

Thanks for all the information.
 
   / switching to synthetic #26  
20 20 you should give the full synthetic a try,with winter approaching it is a great time to run it,and you will then be a believer.Id run Delvac,Rotella SYnthetic,Shaeffers 9000,honestly I dont think it matters much which brand as long as its full syn 5w40 HD diesel oil.Ive found rotella syn the cheapest,and occasionally it is on sale,I will buy it then,otherwise its Shaeffers 7000 or 9000.
 
   / switching to synthetic #27  
Cat driver, excellent post! I was also going to bring up the fact that several cars are filled with synthetics from the factories also. I use synthetics in everything. I am also into performance boats. I believe it was Teague that ran a twin engine boat with one engine on Dino and one with synthetic for around 200 hrs then tore down both engines. The engine with synthetic had a lot less wear.
 
   / switching to synthetic #28  
Amazing after almost 40 years of synthetic oil there is so much mis-info still floating around out there.

Dino oil to properly break in a motor is rubbish. Old wive's tales. Some of the utter BS I have heard from the mouths of service personnel is really appalling! ....So, what your service guy is REALLY telling you, is that you NEED to have an oil break down sooner, in order to ensure proper motor break in. No, it doesn't make sense at all, does it?!! If it did, then the really short life you get with old-fashioned Group I Dino oils ought to make your motor break in REALLY well. Yeah, right!!

The old wives tale of break in has been debunked years ago. Auto manufacturers add synthetic at the factory with ZERO mileage on them:


* Acura RDX
* Aston Martin
* All Bentley Vehicles
* All Cadillac Vehicles
* Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
* Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS
* Chrysler 300C SRT-8
* Cobalt SS S/C Coupe
* Dodge Caliber SRT-4, Charger SRT-8, and Magnum SRT-8
* Jeep Cherokee SRT-8
* Mercedes-Benz AMG Vehicles
* Mercedes SLR
* Mitsubishi Evolution
* Pontiac Solstice GXP
* All Porsche Vehicles
* Saturn Ion Red Line and Saturn Sky Red Line
* Viper SRT-10

Don't take any ones word read the spec sheets for yourself on the oil you are using and a comparable synthetic.

I just checked a popular DINO oil against a popular SYNTHETIC and the numbers don't lie.

Flash point on DINO oil was around 400 degrees F.
Flash point on SYNTHETIC was around 500 degrees F.

Pour point DINO oil -24 C
Pour Point synthetic -45 C

So there you have it, Synthetic will always win hands down on the numbers alone. Now as far as all the other things like longer change intervals etc. are a bonus.

Because a synthetic oil's molecules are much more consistent in size and shape, they are better able to withstand extreme engine temperatures. By contrast, the unstable molecules in conventional oil can easily vaporize or oxidize in extreme heat.

An 0W-30 synthetic oil is capable of pumping easily at -62 degrees F and flowing at even lower temperatures. Conventional oils are essentially frozen solid at that temperature, so there's simply no conventional equivalent to this new grade. There are 5W-30 conventional and synthetic oils, but even here, the synthetic has a real-world advantage: Mobil 1's 5W-30 will pump at -58-degrees F, compared to about -35-degrees F for a conventional oil.

Because a synthetic oil is chemically produced, there are no contaminants in the oil. By contrast, conventional oils contain small amounts of sulfur, wax, and asphaltic material that can promote detonation as well as varnish and sludge buildup. With no wax, synthetics will flow at much lower temperatures than conventional oils.

In terms of peak numbers, Car Craft found that the engine gained nearly 7 hp with the thinner conventional oil, and was up nearly 10 hp with the synthetic. No peak torque gains were observed by changing from 20W-50 to 10W-30 conventional; however, the synthetic was up 15 lb-ft of torque at the peak. Looking at average numbers helps explain where the gains occurred--both the thinner conventional and synthetic oils broadened the torque and power bands overall, but the thin Mobil 1 showed the greatest improvement under 4,700 rpm, indicating that the thinner oil provides less initial drag for the engine to overcome.

However, thinner oil also translates to lower oil pressure: The 0W-30 oil developed 10 psi less than the baseline 20W-50. Only 46 psi was on tap at 6,200 rpm--kind of shaky as most gear heads like to see at least 10 psi per 1,000 rpm. Still, the engine ran OK, and the bearings looked fine on teardown, seemingly verifying synthetic manufacturers' claims that their products' greater shear strength more than makes up for lower viscosity. Is 10 hp and 15 lb-ft worth paying two to four times more for a quart of oil? Or the potential for extended engine life? You be the judge.

Excellent, Thank you. :)
 
   / switching to synthetic #29  
Thank you Cat_Driver nice post. I'm using rottella now so I'll just switch over to synthetic rottella when the time comes.

thanks again everyone on for the info.
 
   / switching to synthetic #30  
More info on Syn oil:
(don't know the policy on 'cut & paste, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I have hoof in mouth disease)
Taken from Machinery Lubrication mag;
Synthetic Gear Oil Selection
by Dennis Lauer
Synthetic oils provide a number of advantages. However, they do not necessarily out-perform mineral oils in all respects and may even result in some drawbacks despite their advantages. The advantages of synthetic lubricating oils (depending on the base oil) include:

•improved thermal and oxidation resistance
•improved viscosity-temperature behavior, high viscosity index (in most cases)
•improved low temperature properties
•lower evaporation losses
•reduced flammability (in some cases)
•improved lubricity (in some cases)
•lower tendency to form residues
•improved resistance to ambient media
Possible disadvantages include:

•higher price
•reactions in the presence of water (hydrolysis, corrosion)
•material compatibility problems (paints, elastomers, certain metals)
•limited miscibility with mineral oils
Application-related advantages often prevail, increasing the use of synthetic lubricants as gear lubricants, especially under critical operating conditions. The most common synthetic types used include synthetic hydrocarbon oils (SHC), polyglycols (PAG) and ester oils (E).
Advantages of Synthetic Gear Oils Based on Reduced Friction

Increased Gear Efficiency

•Smaller gears with smaller motors can provide the same power output
•Higher power output can be achieved with the same power input
Reduced Oil Temperatures

•Extension of the oxidative life (five times longer than mineral oils in some cases)
•Extended component life (where reduced wear and friction is achieved)
•Cooling systems may no longer be required
Reduced Energy Consumption

•Reduced costs for electric current or fuel consumption resulting from lower total energy losses in the gearbox; 30 percent and more for worm gears
•Costs for electric power have been reported as high as 10 percent
Improved Efficiency and Reduced Wear When Using Synthetic Oils
Tests show synthetic oils make gears more efficient than mineral oils. A polyglycol oil in the study resulted in the highest degree of efficiency: 18 percent more than the high performance mineral gear oil. SHC gear oil also made the test gears eight to nine percent more efficient. Its performance as a food-grade lubricant in accordance with USDA-H1 is also an excellent added advantage. Food-grade lubricants are often thought to be inferior to normal lubricants, an opinion which this study seems to disprove.

Synthetic base oils have excellent wear protection behavior, which is enhanced by appropriate antiwear additives. Wear is particularly low when the PAG gear oil is used.

Extended Oil Change Intervals Using Synthetic Oils
Synthetic oils have better resistance to aging and high temperatures and a longer service life than mineral oils. Depending on the base oil (SHC or PAG), the oil change intervals may be three to five times longer at the same operating temperature.

Approximate oil change intervals of gear oils at an operating temperature of 176°F (80°C) are:

•Mineral oil: 5,000 operating hours
•SHC oil: 15,000 operating hours (extension factor 3)
•PAG oil: 25,000 operating hours (extension factor 5)
Synthetic oils have a lower friction coefficient than mineral oils in a gearbox and a more favorable viscosity-temperature relationship. This generally permits the use of synthetics at lower viscosity grades and also offers the possibility of reduced oil temperature during operation. In such cases, the life extension factors for oil change intervals of synthetic oils are longer than the values stated above, which refer to identical oil temperature. The following comparison of test results illustrates this advantage. Three lubricants were tested in a splash lubricated worm gear test rig.

The test records show the following oil sump temperatures after 300 operating hours:

Mineral oil: 230°F (110°C)
SHC: 194°F (90°C)
PAG: 167°F (75°C)

The life extension factors of synthetic oils as compared to mineral oil are as follows:

Mineral oil = 1
SHC = 9.5 times longer
PAG = 31 times longer

Synthetic Oils Help Save Maintenance and Disposal Costs
As compared to mineral oils, the oil change intervals of synthetic oils may be five times longer under the same thermal conditions. Despite the fact that the purchase price and the costs of disposal of synthetics are higher than that of a mineral oil, the extended oil change intervals can offset these costs when taking into account the gear unit’s extended service life. A comparison of the costs for mineral and synthetic offers real opportunity to reduce maintenance cost and improve machine reliability. There is also the advantage of reduced environmental impacts with lower lubricant disposal rates.
 

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