Synthetic fuels

[tyr382]

Anyone know detail info on these so called synthetic fuels or as some call it E-fuels ?
If ya don’t know what I’m on about watch these vids


Synthetic Fuels Complement E-Mobility - MAHLE & Porsche - YouTube


How CO2 Could Be The Future Of Fuel | VICE on HBO - YouTube

Basically it’s carbon capture but combination of hydrogen can create a clean burning high octane fuel.

Most argue the fact that the energy needs for this is far greater then then output, but with small modular reactors becoming more of a reality, then air to fuel production is more then possible but profitable.
Personally I haven’t been this excited since the 56k modem was released.
What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?
My question is what quality fuels will we be seeing from this. They are already looking at running formula 1 on E fuels but they haven’t stated what kind

 

[lilranch2001]

sounds like ethanol to me

 

[tyr382]

No nothing like ethanol

Unlike ethanol, synthetic fuels or “blue crude” are made from capturing Co2 from the atmosphere and bonding it was hydrogen making it a liquid carbon based fuel.
This is nothing like bio fuels where it’s made form agricultural products. In fact, this is going to put a end to bio fuels and the whole decision of whether a farmer has to produce to make food or fuel.
There will be no need for bio fuels.

Audi came up with the whole blue crude years ago, but after the whole Diesel gate scandal, blue crude just vanished. But now carbon engineering claim they can extract a ton of carbon for less then $100, I think this is something that is heading in the right direction.

 

[Monster5601]

Thanks for the post, very interesting. I would like to know the costs involved. Seems to me something like this would explode on to the market and it isn't. Why?

 

[nyone]

I have that saved in my playlist to watch. I would assume it's not a big hit on the market because it cost more. There's a lot of technology out there that can't get going because it cost more than the old way. No market for it no quick money to be made. No money means it dies.

 

[LouNY]

Many years ago I was involved in a project to convert landfill methane into diesel fuel, the idea was sound and it proved out but it was not economically feasible.
Also the paraffin produced was hard to cleanup it held much of the catalyst in it, the fuel was excellent just quite expensive to produce.

 

[RalphVa]

Anyone know detail info on these so called synthetic fuels or as some call it E-fuels ?
If ya don’t know what I’m on about watch these vids


Synthetic Fuels Complement E-Mobility - MAHLE & Porsche - YouTube


How CO2 Could Be The Future Of Fuel | VICE on HBO - YouTube

Basically it’s carbon capture but combination of hydrogen can create a clean burning high octane fuel.

Most argue the fact that the energy needs for this is far greater then then output, but with small modular reactors becoming more of a reality, then air to fuel production is more then possible but profitable.
Personally I haven’t been this excited since the 56k modem was released.
What’s everyone’s thoughts on this?
My question is what quality fuels will we be seeing from this. They are already looking at running formula 1 on E fuels but they haven’t stated what kind

Neither tell me much about what the fuel actually is. First is a very good simulation. Second is good about carbon capture but nothing about the fuel.

Ralph

 

[tyr382]

The key question here is energy. What is the energy input to the energy output, and also the process has to be either renewable energy or nuclear.
But if you see the huge advancements that are underway with small modular reactors where not only will they be used for power production, but you will start to see modular reactors made for industrial use such as water desalination, carbon capture, co2 concrete production and so on.

 

[tyr382]

Neither tell me much about what the fuel actually is. First is a very good simulation. Second is good about carbon capture but nothing about the fuel.

Ralph

I agree that’s what I was hoping to find out more
Iv contacted carbon engineering with that question and still waiting for a response.
For what Iv been reading, they can basically make what ever octane fuel they want. mahle I beleave was working along side with carbon engineering with there 911 test car.

Other companies like sunfire have there own way with what they call blue crude, and are working along side with Audi and continental, where they have there own fuel systems.

 

[tyr382]

Synthetic Fuels: explained in a simple way! - YouTube

 

[Grumpycat]

Many years ago I was involved in a project to convert landfill methane into diesel fuel, the idea was sound and it proved out but it was not economically feasible.
Also the paraffin produced was hard to cleanup it held much of the catalyst in it, the fuel was excellent just quite expensive to produce.

There has been a lot of discussion elsewhere about producing synthetic diesel from natural gas. Fracking is producing an excess of natural gas, sometimes frackers pay someone to take the excess away or flame it on-site.

Natural gas is very difficult to transport if one doesn't have sufficient pipeline. Must be compressed to be practical and compressing consumes energy.

Synthetic motor oils are made from natural gas. Similar processes produce a very high quality diesel which has never had sulfur therefore no need for expensive processes to remove sulfur. Said to be cost effective when NG is less than $6/MBTU, but the source didn't say what cost per barrel of crude they were comparing against. The hitch in the get-along is that a production plant of suitable scale for economic production is $1B.

 

[DEWFPO]

This is interesting as well. Another way to produce HC's.

Secretive energy startup backed by Bill Gates achieves solar breakthrough - CNN

DEWFPO

 

[AllByteNoBark]

Interesting. As Grumpy at says a lot of natural gas is flashed off near here. Drive through the Eagle Ford area and you see a lot of large flare stacks burning.

Always thought there should be a way to make use of that gas.

 

[LouNY]

The system that I was involved with ended up being run on natural gas when the landfill could not provide adequate methane.
It was basically a modified Fischer Tropsch Process using a different catalyst. This process works on many base gases the
Germans used it in WW2 with coal gas for much of their fuel production.

 

[RalphVa]

Synthetic Fuels: explained in a simple way! - YouTube

Good for showing H2 vs. battery. Doesn't help me regarding a CO2 fuel of some sort.

Ralph

 

[nova3930]

For all intents and purposes you reverse the combustion process via some form of catalyst with thermal energy input. Variations of the idea have been floating around forever but the ones that are the most near term feasible involve using a nuclear reactor to perform thermolysis of water into H2 and O2, then feed them along with CO2 from carbon capture through a catalyst with more heat from the nuclear reactor to produce liquid methanol....

ETA

Newly discovered catalyst could lead to cheap, clean methanol

 

[Grumpycat]

Interesting. As Grumpy at says a lot of natural gas is flashed off near here. Drive through the Eagle Ford area and you see a lot of large flare stacks burning.

Always thought there should be a way to make use of that gas.

Modern Luddites prevent construction of pipelines nominally for “environmental” reasons. Net result is the flaring of surplus gas.

 

[tyr382]

For all intents and purposes you reverse the combustion process via some form of catalyst with thermal energy input. Variations of the idea have been floating around forever but the ones that are the most near term feasible involve using a nuclear reactor to perform thermolysis of water into H2 and O2, then feed them along with CO2 from carbon capture through a catalyst with more heat from the nuclear reactor to produce liquid methanol....

ETA

Newly discovered catalyst could lead to cheap, clean methanol

Your right on the reactor part, I see a future for SMR technology where company’s can buy or lease a reactor small enough to run there business and have a swap and go system where ones the fuel is spent you just replace the whole reactor. Even nasa is in the development with there kilopower reactors that are so small you can hold in your hands.

 

[tyr382]

This is interesting as well. Another way to produce HC's.

Secretive energy startup backed by Bill Gates achieves solar breakthrough - CNN

DEWFPO

I don’t know the difference but it seems like the same idea with molten salt solar towers that collect and heat molten salt over 850c.
I’m very favourable to solar towers as to solar panels being that they use less space, very simple to use mirrors as to PV panels.

I saw a brilliant idea where you tether solar farms in space using carbon nanotubes that send the energy back to earth making non stop energy. Can’t remember the math but solar panels collect way more energy in space as to in our atmosphere.

 

[tyr382]

For all intents and purposes you reverse the combustion process via some form of catalyst with thermal energy input. Variations of the idea have been floating around forever but the ones that are the most near term feasible involve using a nuclear reactor to perform thermolysis of water into H2 and O2, then feed them along with CO2 from carbon capture through a catalyst with more heat from the nuclear reactor to produce liquid methanol....

ETA

Newly discovered catalyst could lead to cheap, clean methanol

I think carbon engineerings method is more adaptive to society. Not everyone can run or even convert there engines to methanol. Iv seen a lot of water/meth injection mods for Audi’s FIS but never seen a FSI or even ant direct injection system use e85 or any methanol systems

If carbon engineering claim that no modifications or tuning are required Then sign me up!!