Synthetic Oil for PT 425
- Thread starter SCOTCHERS
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FOURTEEN
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 1,042
- Location
- Efland - Triangle of North Carolina.
- Tractor
- 2004 Power Trac PT-425
I am NOT an Amsoil dealer! I obtain my Amsoil products via:
Lubrication Specialist, LLC.
greg@lubespecialist.com
"" What Amsoil oil filter do you use? ""
SDF For my PT-425 with a KOHLER engine I use Amsoil SDF57.
"" Air filter? ""
Kohler OEM.
"" Hydraulic filter? ""
Power Trac OEM.
"" Hydraulics? How many quarts? ""
10 Gallons of Hydraulic , but check for proper level after adding 9!
Lubrication Specialist, LLC.
greg@lubespecialist.com
"" What Amsoil oil filter do you use? ""
SDF For my PT-425 with a KOHLER engine I use Amsoil SDF57.
"" Air filter? ""
Kohler OEM.
"" Hydraulic filter? ""
Power Trac OEM.
"" Hydraulics? How many quarts? ""
10 Gallons of Hydraulic , but check for proper level after adding 9!
Phils
Platinum Member
You OUGHTA be a dealer, 14! You know the benefits already.
I've been using synthetics since 1977, and have been an Amsoil dealer since about 1978. I became a dealer only so that I could get the oil at any warehouse in the country during the decade I was an owner-operator cross-country trucker. The lifetime membership was a bargain back then. I haven't sold any, just wanted the price and availability benefits from being a dealer.
The guy that first talked me into trying it suggested only putting it into my truck differentials and seeing the difference. Truck differentials have temp gauges, and immediately my diffs ran 50 degrees cooler than before putting in synthetic. That's purely a reduction in friction. Since then, I use it in EVERYTHING (not necessarily Amsoil but whatever is the best deal).
On cars, I change oil and filter once a year (that's about 12,000 miles usually). Since synthetic can go in excess of 25,000 with a filter change at 12,000, I figure I'm changing more frequently than necessary. But my reasoning is this: 4 oil and filter changes (at 3000 mile intervals) costs about the same or even a little more than 1 oil/filter change with synthetic at 12,000 miles. I get about 1 or 2 MPG better which saves me money. I only do 1/4 of the oil changes which saves me time, labor and disposal hassle. I get the increased engine life (from the reduced friction and wear). I win.
On a Detroit Diesel in my Kenworth, I changed oil every 50,000 (could've gone 100K but I used the same logic as detailed above). In the eighties, Detroit had a problem with rod bearings delaminating. I noticed a 5psi oil pressure drop but blamed it on a malfunctioning gauge (a common human way to deal with potential problems). I drove another 20,000 miles and then noticed the bearing chunks coming out of the oil drain hole when I was doing my 50K change.
I took the pieces to a local DD dealer, and he explained the delamination problem. He asked how long since I'd noticed the oil pressure drop, and about fell over when I told him "over 20,000 miles ago". He lectured me about how DDs must have 10,000 mile oil changes, and also explained that my engine would need a complete rebuild -- two weeks and $11,000. When they first dropped the pan and took off the rod cap, every mechanic in that shop took turns looking at a crank journal that had NO damage. It didn't even need to be polished with emery cloth. The rod bearing was toast. A new set of bearings and we were on our way that same afternoon. Synthetics saved me almost $11,000 and significant downtime.
Another time (same engine) the key on the crank that turned the gear that powered the oil pump sheared off (at that time I had over 700,000 miles on the engine). Due to circumstances I was forced to drive a loaded semi-truck over 5 miles with NO oil pressure whatsoever (no shoulder to park on and it was a very dark night). Towed back to Boise the next day, and the service manager there explained that I was in luck: A brand new DD Silver 92 was on sale and I could have it installed for only $10,000 and be on the road sooner and cheaper than if I had them do a complete rebuild, which is what he was sure I needed. I asked them to open it up just to see what was wrong. They did, and found the oil pump freewheeling but NO engine damage. At all. $800 and 2 days later we were on our way, and another group of mechanics was converted to synthetic believers.
I'm familiar with the discussions here of "anecdotal evidence". That is what these two examples are (I have more but this post is long enough already). However, expert opinions (the service managers and mechanics) indicated that synthetic oils saved me about $20,000 on those two instances alone.
I maintain that anyone that thinks synthetic oils are more expensive isn't looking at the big picture.
[on edit] I should've added that my PT will, of course, get synthetic as soon as it's 'broken in'. That makes the above slightly more relevent to the thread, but I doubt anyone thought any different.
Phil
I've been using synthetics since 1977, and have been an Amsoil dealer since about 1978. I became a dealer only so that I could get the oil at any warehouse in the country during the decade I was an owner-operator cross-country trucker. The lifetime membership was a bargain back then. I haven't sold any, just wanted the price and availability benefits from being a dealer.
The guy that first talked me into trying it suggested only putting it into my truck differentials and seeing the difference. Truck differentials have temp gauges, and immediately my diffs ran 50 degrees cooler than before putting in synthetic. That's purely a reduction in friction. Since then, I use it in EVERYTHING (not necessarily Amsoil but whatever is the best deal).
On cars, I change oil and filter once a year (that's about 12,000 miles usually). Since synthetic can go in excess of 25,000 with a filter change at 12,000, I figure I'm changing more frequently than necessary. But my reasoning is this: 4 oil and filter changes (at 3000 mile intervals) costs about the same or even a little more than 1 oil/filter change with synthetic at 12,000 miles. I get about 1 or 2 MPG better which saves me money. I only do 1/4 of the oil changes which saves me time, labor and disposal hassle. I get the increased engine life (from the reduced friction and wear). I win.
On a Detroit Diesel in my Kenworth, I changed oil every 50,000 (could've gone 100K but I used the same logic as detailed above). In the eighties, Detroit had a problem with rod bearings delaminating. I noticed a 5psi oil pressure drop but blamed it on a malfunctioning gauge (a common human way to deal with potential problems). I drove another 20,000 miles and then noticed the bearing chunks coming out of the oil drain hole when I was doing my 50K change.
I took the pieces to a local DD dealer, and he explained the delamination problem. He asked how long since I'd noticed the oil pressure drop, and about fell over when I told him "over 20,000 miles ago". He lectured me about how DDs must have 10,000 mile oil changes, and also explained that my engine would need a complete rebuild -- two weeks and $11,000. When they first dropped the pan and took off the rod cap, every mechanic in that shop took turns looking at a crank journal that had NO damage. It didn't even need to be polished with emery cloth. The rod bearing was toast. A new set of bearings and we were on our way that same afternoon. Synthetics saved me almost $11,000 and significant downtime.
Another time (same engine) the key on the crank that turned the gear that powered the oil pump sheared off (at that time I had over 700,000 miles on the engine). Due to circumstances I was forced to drive a loaded semi-truck over 5 miles with NO oil pressure whatsoever (no shoulder to park on and it was a very dark night). Towed back to Boise the next day, and the service manager there explained that I was in luck: A brand new DD Silver 92 was on sale and I could have it installed for only $10,000 and be on the road sooner and cheaper than if I had them do a complete rebuild, which is what he was sure I needed. I asked them to open it up just to see what was wrong. They did, and found the oil pump freewheeling but NO engine damage. At all. $800 and 2 days later we were on our way, and another group of mechanics was converted to synthetic believers.
I'm familiar with the discussions here of "anecdotal evidence". That is what these two examples are (I have more but this post is long enough already). However, expert opinions (the service managers and mechanics) indicated that synthetic oils saved me about $20,000 on those two instances alone.
I maintain that anyone that thinks synthetic oils are more expensive isn't looking at the big picture.
[on edit] I should've added that my PT will, of course, get synthetic as soon as it's 'broken in'. That makes the above slightly more relevent to the thread, but I doubt anyone thought any different.
Phil
NY_Yankees_Fan
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Messages
- 2,206
- Tractor
- Kubota BX 2200
14,
Now that Amsoil sells direct on the internet, how do dealers prices compare?
Now that Amsoil sells direct on the internet, how do dealers prices compare?
johara1
Platinum Member
i also think if the engine failed due to an oil filter would be a first, the oil filter mfg. would get a call. i have crossed the robin oil filter#,and onan and international are the same /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gifguess who makes onan /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
J_J
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2003
- Messages
- 18,952
- Location
- JACKSONVILLE, FL
- Tractor
- Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST
What would be an average price for a quart, and a gallon of Amsoil oil, and would you use the same oil in the hydraulic system.
MuncyBob
Platinum Member
I too will be changing my engine oil in the PT to synthetic at 100 hours(which will be soon).....would this be the same time to change over the hydraulic oil too? Phils, thanks for the "user" insight...I've read a lot about syn oil but mostly from dealers and manufacturers(and thanx to to 14 for his previous user posts on synth)...I think I'm converted! I hesitate to change over my car though since it has over 150k on it. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
tracdoc
Platinum Member
johara1 and my PT colleagues,
Where does one find the cross refs for different filter brands? I'm interested in the Robin engine oil filter for the 425. As I posted earlier on the thread, the Owner's manual didn't have ANY information on the filter. Fortunately, Jack Robin provided the OEM filter #.
I have a couple of Mobil 1 filters that I had for my Tacoma, which I have since traded in. The filter "looks" to be the right size, but I can't find a cross reference database on-line. The Mobil 1 filter is #M1-102. These were well rated in a comprehensive independent oil filter study {OIL FILTER STUDY}
Thanks for any help...
Where does one find the cross refs for different filter brands? I'm interested in the Robin engine oil filter for the 425. As I posted earlier on the thread, the Owner's manual didn't have ANY information on the filter. Fortunately, Jack Robin provided the OEM filter #.
I have a couple of Mobil 1 filters that I had for my Tacoma, which I have since traded in. The filter "looks" to be the right size, but I can't find a cross reference database on-line. The Mobil 1 filter is #M1-102. These were well rated in a comprehensive independent oil filter study {OIL FILTER STUDY}
Thanks for any help...
tracdoc
Platinum Member
Hi Fourteen,
On the subject of oils here, and realizing that we drive PT green or PT red and not orange, have you any insight on the "Kubota Super UDT" synthetic oil for use in our hydraulics?
There is a current thread in the "Oils, Lubes.." forum of TBN which indicates that Amsoil confirms that their ATH does not come up to the specs of the Kubota product {Amsoil vs Kubota Oils}
What does "UDT" stand for, anyway?
On the subject of oils here, and realizing that we drive PT green or PT red and not orange, have you any insight on the "Kubota Super UDT" synthetic oil for use in our hydraulics?
There is a current thread in the "Oils, Lubes.." forum of TBN which indicates that Amsoil confirms that their ATH does not come up to the specs of the Kubota product {Amsoil vs Kubota Oils}
What does "UDT" stand for, anyway?
Phils
Platinum Member
Farmall,
I plan on adding makeup synthetic when I change hydraulic filters, not changing out the entire hydraulic supply. I should've mentioned in my post above that the oil I was using in that Detroit was Amsoil's "Para-synthetic" (don't even know if it is still marketed). It was a blend of regular oil and synthetic and about 1/2 the price of full synthetic. Detroits back then used a lot of oil and I tried both full synthetic and para synthetic and there was no difference in the mileage gain so I used the blend. I had used only full synthetic in my first two trucks with Cummins as there was negligible oil consumption with them. But that taught me that you get MOST of the benefit even if it isn't 100% synthetic.
Therefore, I think at each hydraulic filter replacement, I'll be replacing the lost oil with full synthetic and I'll derive some small benefit. I haven't seen any posts about the hydraulic pumps or rams wearing out because of oil breakdown and it doesn't get cold enough here to get any benefit from the stable viscosity in the hydraulic system. Your situation is different and in very cold weather you could get a benefit of not having sluggish hydraulics until the unit warms up. But changing out 10 gallons to synthetic doesn't seem worth the expense for that small benefit.
Concerning your high mileage auto, I've changed cars with around 100,000 miles to synthetic and not had a problem. You might have heard references to oil leaks developing at seals, and it's a possibility. If the sealing surfaces are caked in varnish and gums, synthetic would clean all that stuff off and maybe allow oil to pass by the old seal surface when that varnish layer is gone. Synthetic does an outstanding job cleaning because of some superior detergent qualities, but sometimes it's NOT a good idea to fully clean the internals of an older engine.
Phil
I plan on adding makeup synthetic when I change hydraulic filters, not changing out the entire hydraulic supply. I should've mentioned in my post above that the oil I was using in that Detroit was Amsoil's "Para-synthetic" (don't even know if it is still marketed). It was a blend of regular oil and synthetic and about 1/2 the price of full synthetic. Detroits back then used a lot of oil and I tried both full synthetic and para synthetic and there was no difference in the mileage gain so I used the blend. I had used only full synthetic in my first two trucks with Cummins as there was negligible oil consumption with them. But that taught me that you get MOST of the benefit even if it isn't 100% synthetic.
Therefore, I think at each hydraulic filter replacement, I'll be replacing the lost oil with full synthetic and I'll derive some small benefit. I haven't seen any posts about the hydraulic pumps or rams wearing out because of oil breakdown and it doesn't get cold enough here to get any benefit from the stable viscosity in the hydraulic system. Your situation is different and in very cold weather you could get a benefit of not having sluggish hydraulics until the unit warms up. But changing out 10 gallons to synthetic doesn't seem worth the expense for that small benefit.
Concerning your high mileage auto, I've changed cars with around 100,000 miles to synthetic and not had a problem. You might have heard references to oil leaks developing at seals, and it's a possibility. If the sealing surfaces are caked in varnish and gums, synthetic would clean all that stuff off and maybe allow oil to pass by the old seal surface when that varnish layer is gone. Synthetic does an outstanding job cleaning because of some superior detergent qualities, but sometimes it's NOT a good idea to fully clean the internals of an older engine.
Phil
