Synthetic oil in motor n/g

[RIRICH]

And the debating goes on ...............
Sources have told me that cars don't come factory with syn oil because the manufactures want it (ex. mobil 1 & corvettes) it has to do with marketing and $$$ (we give oil = you put sticker) But anyways ..... I use syn in my sno-blower, boat which I consider demanding equipment, and I do experience a difference. As for cars, trucks, tractors or ?? had a few with 300k + miles on plain old oil. Have a technical (boring) tape on oils, discusses parifins, wear characteristics and everything else, maybe I should transcribe it for everyone. Only kidding, hold off on the linch mob. Good luck with your choice/s.

 

[woodstock]

Converted by Synthetic oil

Seeing is believing.
In 1986 after two terribly cold winters, which played havoc on my poor JD 318 sitting in -35 degree for days on end, I was not looking forward to another winter freezing my tail off trying to start the green block of ice.
I can't remember who's commercial it was, but his car was in a block of ice and it started and guess what it was a syn oil commercial.
Well there is no block heater for an air-cooled engine and I was warned against using a dipstick oil heater because of there being only 1.5 quarts.
So what the hay, I tried it in desperation.
Well when its -35 that green block of ice has to turn over for about 10-15 seconds before it even tries to fire for the first time and then you have to keep it cranking until the engine is turning over faster than the starter or it dies.
The first this I noticed with the syn oil was after only 2 seconds the darn oil light goes out. Usually with regular oil the oil light doesn't go out until the motor is up to mid speed for several seconds. This means 10-15 seconds of pre firing cranking, 3-5 seconds cranking with plugs starting to fire and then 2-3 seconds 1/2 throttle and then the oil light goes out. Looks to me like 20-25 seconds with parts moving and no lubrication. Can you see the metal filings and hear the grinding.
Well with syn oil this nasty part is 2 seconds.
Every expert out there knows, and lord knows there are billions of them, this first few moments is when all the engine wear takes place.
The oil choice is a no brainer as far as I am concerned. Anything else syn oil can do is a bonus.
Yes oil is oil but give me oil pressure now before my engine starts not 20 seconds after.
Ever since then everything that rotates in our domain receives syn oil and so will the Bota at the 50 hr mark.
There is some debate about using syn oil in pre broke-in engines.
I do know that many higher end performance cars, Corvette, Caddy, Viper, etc. come from the factory with syn oil.
The only problem I have experienced with syn oil was with the JD318 this summer. When I changed the oil I only had 5W30 and the JD 18 HP Onan started puffing a little blue smoke upon startup or throttle back. Well I changed it again within the hour and used 20W50 and the blues went away. Obviously nothing to do with syn oil just the wrong weight of oil.
Oil is cheep, even syn oil when compared to rebuild costs and down time.
Remember the Fram commercial you can pay me now or you can pay me later.
Speaking of Fram, something that really interests me is a better oil filter, so I just started some research.
More oil please. More clean oil that is.

2001 BX2200
All Kubota FEL,
Tiller, box blade,
blower w/elec shute,
60 mid mt deck.
Ag tires on order.
I traded up from
a 1984 JD 318
after 687 hrs.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Re: Not necessarily converted by Synthetic oil

I'm glad I don't live where it gets that cold. I can see where synthetic oil would be a bonus for you folks living in the extreme cold areas of the US. Rat...

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I just found this fantastic site last night. This is my first post. Sorry, but I believe that Amsoil is a totally different company from Amway. I believe (from memory) the owner of Amsoil was (is) Al Amatussio. He started the synthetic oil business shortly after WW2. The original inventors of synthetic oil were German scientists. ******'s army was not able to invade Russia in the winter time because the oil froze in their track equipment. He told his scientists to make an oil that would work in the sub-zero weather. The scientists invented fatty-alchol based synthetic oil and I believe they then became prisoners of war, under the Americans, shortly afterward. The Americans needed an oil to lubricate the high-speed bearings of the newly developed jet engine. American efforts to find an oil to withstand the heat and wear of the jet enjine had failed. We had these German Scientists in prison. Some kind of plan was made and the scientists started cranking out some of the special synthetic oil (for the Americans) and shortly afterward the jets started flying, just about the end of the war. Al had some connection with the jet project and had the forsight to start producing the oil himself, And the rest of that tale is history.

Synthetic oil is about 4 times tougher/stronger than petroleum based oils and it can still pour at very low temperatures and maintain it's film strength at very high temperatures. It has a very long chained molecular structure that will take tremendous heat and pressures of a running engine, which is the main property that makes it a superior lubricant. At any rate, I have been using synthetic oils for about 15 years in my trucks and autos. I've never had a lubrication failure and I change it at 10k miles. I believe it would go further. In the tractors, I think it would be superior to other oils. Matter of fact, I'm sure of it. bobalooa

 

[GlennT]

I can't resist throwing in my two-cents worth any longer. I have used Mobil 1 in several vehicles (cars and pickups) for a long time-probably 15 to 20 years--and it's wonderful stuff. I live in central Texas now and drive about in 100+ degree heat in the summertime; I also spend time in South Dakota on occasion during the wintertime and am subjected to -20 degrees or more (sometimes alot more!). Synthetic oil takes it all in stride and my engines have it or not, I have NEVER had serious engine problems on any of our vehicles when I used synthetic oil. Also, we lived for almost 30 years in Wisconsin and our vehicles started regularly in parking lots in temperatures as low as -40 degrees. However, when it came to choose an oil for my John Deere, other factors entered in. My diesel generates soot, for example, and I don't put enough hours on the tractor each year to justify changing the oil as frequently as I want. Another factor: I don't use the tractor when the temperature is below 25-30 degrees or above 90-95 degrees (why should I, I'm retired). Also, pulling a shredder and a finish mower is the most strenuous task the tractor is subjected to--I don't even own a plow. So, after reading, talking and thinking, I decided to use conventional oil--DELO 400 30W (30W was recommended both by the dealer and a company rep that I called) and I change the oil every 50 hours. I've read many, many posts about synthetic versus fossil-based oils and feel that in my situation changing the oil frequently outweighs some of the other factors. It's not a case of prolonging the life of the tractor (I'll never wear it out); it just seems like the right thing to do. OK, got that off my chest!

 

[patrickg]

Thanks for clarifying that! I've been slowly spiraling in toward the same decision for most of the same reasons. Just got Kubota L4610 HSTC (40 PTO HP) 4WD hydrostatic tranny with Cab and A/C back from dealer for 50 hour service. Somewhere along the line I thought the 50 hour service was "complementary" or included in the purchase price. Boy was I surprised to the tune of over $300.

The dealer recommends using the Kubota brand of hydraulic fluid because of the hydrostatic tranny but says pick your own brand of engine oil and not feel constrained to the Kubota label. I probably work mine a lot harder than you but have been approaching the same conclusion. Can you believe it, my wife insisted I get the cab and air O V E R my objections. Now when I start to get hot and sweaty doing something in the summer heat and humidity I find some tractorin' that neads to be done instead. Like the old movie marque (sp?) "It's 20 degrees cooler inside!"


Patrick

 

[gsxr1100]

All I am going to say is that if you use regular oil test it at 50 hours (for example). Then use synthetic oil like Amsoil or Mobil 1. I will suggest two oils so people do not thing I am bias; however, I do not like Mobil 1. Run 50 hours and test synthetic oil. The results will be better with synthetic oil. At least they were in my equipment

I used regular oil in my tractors and diesel trucks. I did what I just described and I would never but regular oil in my equipment (track, tractors etc). I ran the regular oil for 3,000 miles and it performed like crap. The TBN was low, Mg and Cd were high, and the viscosity was down to 30-weight oil. I stared with a 15w-40. I now used a synthetic oil (nameless so I don’t look like I am advertising a product /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif) and left it in the engine for 3X that of regular oil. Gee, what do you think happened? It had a lot better reading. The TBN was pretty damn high, the Mg, Al, Si, Cd were very low (around 9 PPM) and the viscosity was around 13.9 (started at around 14.9). I would NEVER put $0.99 oil in a $30,000+ truck or a $12,000+ tractor. Can you say crazy…

People can say, “it cost more so I can’t see the extra money”. Or you have the people who say, “You have to leave the oil in there longer”. I love those one. I don’t sell oil to make money so I don’t really care what people use what oil. Tractors take around 3 to 5 quarts of oil. Wow, that is $20 for 100% synthetic oil and filter. Not to much money for a large tractor investment. If the equipment is running correctly then yes you can leave synthetic oil in there longer. Well you could say ya, it make the engine last longer but it is a diesel. It will last forever now? Well, less wear = less downtime to fix=less money to fix. I like tractors but I could put more time where it is really needed.

Lastly Amsoil passes all the specifications and Military spec’s as it says on their bottle. If they printed it falsely I am sure over time some person would have tried to take them to court. If API means anything I have some used oil in an API bottle. Any takers. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif..

The moral of this reply is if you think regular oil is better then synthetic used both oils in the same 100% running engine and have a oil analysis done. That will prove the difference…


Thanks
Mike

 

[JATO_RaT]

Mike, I'm confused by this statement: "I will suggest two oils so people do not thing I am bias; however, I do not like Mobil 1." That pretty much sums up what bias means. Good suggestions to folks about having your oil tested if your really concerned about your oil choice. Rat...

 

[gsxr1100]

Rat - I suggested (2) oils to people. Yup, I did. I however would use one over another. I did not want to get into a brand war. The only two oils I would ever run are Amsoil and maybe, just maybe LE. I am not to fond of LE since the price is higher then Amsoil and it is not 100% synthetic oil. Fleetguard is not to bad either for another one. You have to look and see what ASTM, SAE, DOD spec's the oil meet or pass.

Thanks
Mike

 

[JATO_RaT]

Mike, what is "LE"? Rat...