Talk about white knuckles #2

[ovrszd]

Yes, Griz have a history of going quickly/directly after whatever has done them harm...

KC

According to the Ranger we talked to that day, that's the dangerous part about them. Once they feel threatened the switch flips and there's no stopping them. Was a sow that we were watching. She never acted like she was challenged by us. More a casual interference.

 

[cqaigy2]

I saw a documentary about the guy 2Lane was talking maybe.

Anyway, him and his girlfriend were flown into an area and dropped to study Brown Bear. They sat up camp just into the timber from the shoreline of the small lake the plane could land on. What they didn't know was that due to unusual weather the next valley over had a crop failure of natural berries that the bears primarily lived on at that time of year. The bears got hungry and ranged into the valley where he camped.

A bear attacked their tent and dragged him out. In the scuffle his video camera got turned on. No pic. Just audio. You could hear the bear mauling him. She kept screaming lay still. Between groans he replied I am trying. Finally after some very gruesome audio the bear killed him. She sat in what was left of the tent whimpering. After a few minutes the bear came back and got her.

Forest Rangers were sent in to check on them. They circled the campsite and it was obvious there were problems. They landed on the lake and beached near the campsite. One got off the plane and started into the forest. A very large brown bear appeared. It kept it's head low and with a sideways gate started getting closer to the man. He fortunately recognized that behavior and got back to the plane, shoved off just as the bear reached the plane.

I was fortunate enough to get within 200ft of a Grizzly in Yellowstone 30 years ago. I was in a safe position with my family. I was absolutely intrigued by the bear and it's mannerisms. It looked at us with absolute indifference. A Ranger was there. She said when there's a problem with a bear in the park they remove the bear. She said it's always the human's fault. About the time she was telling us that more tourists showed up and saw the bear. They started jumping out of the cars and yelling to each other about the bear. Some even grabbing their cameras and trying to get closer. She frantically called for backup. Within a couple minutes more Rangers showed up and got the 20 or so people under control. All the while the bear watched intently. Finally it wandered back into the forest. I had great respect for that bear. I also felt great sympathy for it.

We saw some Grizzlies in Yellowstone too. Also saw Kodiak on Kodiak island, many many years ago. I give bears a wide berth when out in their habitat. I also have a lot of sympathy with the rangers dealing with uneducated people.

 

[tookielee]

If you want to see how fast they can move (and climb)....
YouTube

 

[Sigarms]

I saw a documentary about the guy 2Lane was talking maybe.

Anyway, him and his girlfriend were flown into an area and dropped to study Brown Bear. They sat up camp just into the timber from the shoreline of the small lake the plane could land on. What they didn't know was that due to unusual weather the next valley over had a crop failure of natural berries that the bears primarily lived on at that time of year. The bears got hungry and ranged into the valley where he camped.

A bear attacked their tent and dragged him out. In the scuffle his video camera got turned on. No pic. Just audio. You could hear the bear mauling him. She kept screaming lay still. Between groans he replied I am trying. Finally after some very gruesome audio the bear killed him. She sat in what was left of the tent whimpering. After a few minutes the bear came back and got her.

Forest Rangers were sent in to check on them. They circled the campsite and it was obvious there were problems. They landed on the lake and beached near the campsite. One got off the plane and started into the forest. A very large brown bear appeared. It kept it's head low and with a sideways gate started getting closer to the man. He fortunately recognized that behavior and got back to the plane, shoved off just as the bear reached the plane.

Going off memory

1 - Tidwell (guy killed) left the tent to meet the bear.

2 - It is believed the girlfriend left the tent as well to see if she could help Tidwell being attacked.

3 - The pilot sent in to pick up Tidwell retrived the park rangers because it was apparent something bad happened (I believe the pilot actually landed and walked to the camped site and the pilot found the demeanor of one bear very worrisome ).

4 - Two bears were killed. An older male bear (pushing 30 years old I believe), who apparently was underweight and had some "teeth issues", and a younger bear. The older bear was found to have body parts inside of it. The younger bear younger bear was killed because it was apparent it was stalking the rescue party. The younger bear was actually dragged off and eaten itself before a necropsy could be done it.

5 - Tidwell had broken numerous park rules in his "study" of the bears over the years, including keeping food inside his tent (which I believe he stopped over time) as well as putting his campsites in "high risk travel areas with bears" as well as breaking rules as not moving his campsite over a mandatory certain timeframe. Also didn't believe in pepper spray because he used it one time and thought it hurt the bear too much in his opinion.

Although I've never seen the "documentary" on Tidwell, my understanding is that the actual tape recording of the incident has never been made public (only heard by certain people and believe it's still in the possession of Tidwell's old girlfriend). There are however confirmed fakes of the recording being ciruclating.

My only point is it seemed for various reasons, Tidwell put himself in unnessary danger over the years in his "study" of bears (he had no formal training other than his own personal reasons for "being out in nature with the bears"), and it finally caught up with him with the wrong bear, putting himself in the wrong spot at the wrong time (believe he extended his trip by a week because he could find one bear he was looking for).

Use to spend a lot of time in Alaska and wanted to know the circumstances.

 

[oosik]

If the kid had been a cat - he just used several of his nine lives. I spent 22 years in AK. Black, brown, grizzly, polar & kodiak are found all across the state. Each in their own habitat.

There was seldom a tourist hurt or killed by a brown, grizzly, polar or kodiak. They are BIG and most everybody respected these four types.

It was the black bear that did the most damage to tourists. They are smaller, look like your child's favorite stuffed animal & seem to be quite docile.

I have witnessed what a 170# black bear can do to a human. It is not pretty........

 

[Sigarms]

If the kid had been a cat - he just used several of his nine lives. I spent 22 years in AK. Black, brown, grizzly, polar & kodiak are found all across the state. Each in their own habitat.

There was seldom a tourist hurt or killed by a brown, grizzly, polar or kodiak. They are BIG and most everybody respected these four types.

It was the black bear that did the most damage to tourists. They are smaller, look like your child's favorite stuffed animal & seem to be quite docile.

I have witnessed what a 170# black bear can do to a human. It is not pretty........

I've never seen a brown bear running "full tilt", but have personally seen a black bear running "full tilt". Can't help but think they are fast as a brown bear. Unreal how fast I saw him (black bear) run 50-100 yards. It's kind of odd seeing a much bigger 4 legged animal run faster than a "fast" dog. Took my brain a couple of seconds to process what I was seeing. Thing is, if that kind of large animal is running AT you in close proximity, those couple of seconds to process what you're seeing can matter.

That's why, per the video I posted, if that bear had other intentions, the child most likely would of been killed or seriously maimed.

 

[MF RED in MT]

According to the Ranger we talked to that day, that's the dangerous part about them. Once they feel threatened the switch flips and there's no stopping them. Was a sow that we were watching. She never acted like she was challenged by us. More a casual interference.

And like some people, there are bears that always have a bad attitude and do not need a reason to "flip the switch".

Those that are old enough to remember, "The Night of the Grizzlies in Glacier National Park" in Aug. 1967, the main cause was throwing garbage out to feed the bears at the chalets so the tourist guests can observe bears, W.T.F., it sure was the wrong policy back then and now...

One small note:

I know hunters that have killed an elk in the "Bob" (Marshall Wilderness) when the grizzly and wolf were protected, and the wolves were the first on scene from the dinner bell ringing (gun shot) and would surround the kill at a distance while the elk was field dressed.

That does not happen anymore with the wolves because of de listing and hunting/trapping.

Now it's the grizzly that show up from the call of the dinner bell ringing, and will not change until they are de listed/hunted.

KC

 

[Sigarms]

And like some people, there are bears that always have a bad attitude and do not need a reason to "flip the switch".

Those that are old enough to remember, "The Night of the Grizzlies in Glacier National Park" in Aug. 1967, the main cause was throwing garbage out to feed the bears at the chalets so the tourist guests can observe bears, W.T.F., it sure was the wrong policy back then and now...

One small note:

I know hunters that have killed an elk in the "Bob" (Marshall Wilderness) when the grizzly and wolf were protected, and the wolves were the first on scene from the dinner bell ringing (gun shot) and would surround the kill at a distance while the elk was field dressed.

That does not happen anymore with the wolves because of de listing and hunting/trapping.

Now it's the grizzly that show up from the call of the dinner bell ringing, and will not change until they are de listed/hunted.

KC

I don't consider myself a "nature good doer" or "tree hugger".

That said, if you look at the sheer numbers of people killed by wild animals vs the sheer number of animals killed by people, within the last 300 years, I have no doubt that in general, men have killed more animals than animals vs people.

Generally speaking, animals kill for one of two reasons
1 To eat
2 To protect thier offspring

Can yon explain (particularly in the 1800 and 1900's) why men killed animals? I can think of more than a couple of images where hundreds, if not thousands of a certain species of animal were killed by men for nothing more than the "sport" of it.

1967 was over 40 years ago when 2 people were killed. So, if a hispanic man kills a family member for $10, does that make all hispanic men bad?

Yes, man has the superior brain, but the reality is we need to use that brain, and seldom in the past have we used it.

As noted, I respect ALL animals than can kill me, and as I've gotten older, I've given the same respect for those animals that can't kill me.

 

[MF RED in MT]

I don't consider myself a "nature good doer" or "tree hugger".

That said, if you look at the sheer numbers of people killed by wild animals vs the sheer number of animals killed by people, within the last 300 years, I have no doubt that in general, men have killed more animals than animals vs people.

Generally speaking, animals kill for one of two reasons
1 To eat
2 To protect thier offspring

Can yon explain (particularly in the 1800 and 1900's) why men killed animals? I can think of more than a couple of images where hundreds, if not thousands of a certain species of animal were killed by men for nothing more than the "sport" of it.

1967 was over 40 years ago when 2 people were killed. So, if a hispanic man kills a family member for $10, does that make all hispanic men bad?

Yes, man has the superior brain, but the reality is we need to use that brain, and seldom in the past have we used it.

As noted, I respect ALL animals than can kill me, and as I've gotten older, I've given the same respect for those animals that can't kill me.

Wolves CAN and DO "kill for sport".

Don't know what the 1800 and 1900's have to do with today's issues with grizzlies, and yes wolves, but I think back then the killing was for the $$$.

I think your bear/human comparison is a far stretch, but that is the way I think.

I accept your decision to "respect ALL animals...

Please note, I am not going to "saddle a dead horse" here and try to go for a ride.

KC

 

[2LaneCruzer]

I don't consider myself a "nature good doer" or "tree hugger".

That said, if you look at the sheer numbers of people killed by wild animals vs the sheer number of animals killed by people, within the last 300 years, I have no doubt that in general, men have killed more animals than animals vs people.

Generally speaking, animals kill for one of two reasons
1 To eat
2 To protect thier offspring

Can yon explain (particularly in the 1800 and 1900's) why men killed animals? I can think of more than a couple of images where hundreds, if not thousands of a certain species of animal were killed by men for nothing more than the "sport" of it.

1967 was over 40 years ago when 2 people were killed. So, if a hispanic man kills a family member for $10, does that make all hispanic men bad?

Yes, man has the superior brain, but the reality is we need to use that brain, and seldom in the past have we used it.

As noted, I respect ALL animals than can kill me, and as I've gotten older, I've given the same respect for those animals that can't kill me.

Certainly man kills for sport, but during the settlement of this country animals were valued not only for food value, but for their furrs. Fur trading was big business, and many animals were hunted almost to extinction, the beaver for instance. Ducks, geese, turkeys were hunted commercially and sold to the markets. Not to mention, even up through the depression and even in the 50's and 60's, many animals and birds were hunted to put meat on the table. My Dad told me when I was little, we ate more venison (poached) than any other kind of meat. He (and me also) also hunted ducks, geese and quail for our table. Not so sure about the buffalo, but know they were hunted for their hides and their bones, which was encouraged by our government to help subdue the Indians, who depended on them.