Talk to me about the rear remote hydraulic valve type...mx5200

[MechanicalGuy]

Got a buddy with a welder?
I just make my own and save a few bucks, also can "dial in" the perfect size/stroke for my use. Surplus center has a jazillion different size & length cylinders. Somewhere here on TBN I have a post with pics.

Really? It seems like I only saw a small selection of cylinders when I looked. Maybe I will look again.

Oh you mean just buy something and weld ends on it right?

I'm not gonna do that right now. I can't bring in gov projects at the job I've been at for the last 7 years and the nearest welder is too much trouble. I'm trying to get out of even traveling for hose making. I just want to do all this shopping online.

 

[Rustyiron]

If you have the time, there's a guy here that builds them and a side cylinder for l/r tilt (aka "top n tilt") that is top notch (iirc search mountain view ranch?) he's a one man shop that can Taylor to your exact machine & needs. Last I read he had a several month lead time, but the folks here that have dealt with him say he's worth the wait.:thumbsup:

 

[Michael In Tennessee]

It has a detent. It just doesn't return to center by itself. I have not installed anything in the qd fittings yet. I have only worked the lever once or twice.

Well, I'm going with the most simple answer... You don't know yet. The factory valve is spring centered. Your experience with the valve is essentially zero. It may detent in one direction, but won't the other.

I would have bought something already, but it's really difficult for me to find exactly what I'm looking for. Kubota did something a little weird with the MX tractors. They put cat 2 rear end 3pt hook ups on the tractors, but the top link can only be 1 3/4" wide at the tractor side. Cat 2 is normally 2". So what that means is that most cat 2 hydraulic cylinders won't fit. I've found a few at agristore that will fit, they call them cat2/1 cylinders. They have bsp ports. I've found Magister cylinders makes a perfect 12" stroke cylinder with a 2.5" bore that I like, but it has #8 SAE ports. The width of both ends is really skinny for clearance on lots of stuff (I think it's 1.5" or something).

What I really want is a 12" stroke cylinder with female npt ports that has a minimum length of 22" and a maximum length of 34". I waffle back and forth on the check valve thing. It seems like the extra bulk could get broke off or damaged easily, but it does provide a factor of safety.

I have a local shop that can make hoses with SAE on one end and NPT on the other end if I need. My qd connectors going into the tractor are #8 fnpt.

I just haven't decided what pile of crap I want to deal with yet. I really don't want to grind a cat 2 ball down to fit into my tractor end of 1 3/4", and I'd rather not get hoses with different fittings on one end and the other, and I'm told that I'll want or need an orifice, if I don't put out the bucks for a needle flow control.

I'm leaning towards a $136 Magister 12" stroke cylinder with #8 SAE ports and some custom hoses to mate them to #8 fnpt qd ends to the tractor. That would only leave me needing to find an orifice to go in between the fnpt qd and the male npt hose end.

For my MX, I bought my cylinder from Agrisupply.
Top Link Cylinder 2-1/2 Bore 1 Stroke, Category 2 | Agri Supply 84745

Its only 10 inch stroke and a bit short, but the Cat 2 rod ends fit the MX. It needs to be a couple of inches longer, but once I buy a welder, I'll fix that. I find it isn't too short to work at least OK.

#8 SAE (ORB) would be just fine. Use a ORB-JIC fitting and JIC hose ends. It would be perfect. I wish I'd have found it when I was looking. Price looks good too if shipping is modest. An SAE (O-ring Boss) fitting is typical on valve bodies and is better than NPT.

Hoses are best with JIC fittings. I would use your Magister cylinder, -8 ORB-to-JIC fittings on the cylinder (straight or elbow as you desire). -8 JIC hoses. Then a -8JIC-to-NPT adapter to the QD. I'm not sure your QD, but Kubota is fond of ISO7241B if I recall correctly. You may have to disassemble your QD Hanger and look for part numbers. Surplus center has pre-made hoses at a good price.

 

[MechanicalGuy]

Well, I'm going with the most simple answer... You don't know yet. The factory valve is spring centered. Your experience with the valve is essentially zero. It may detent in one direction, but won't the other.




For my MX, I bought my cylinder from Agrisupply.
Top Link Cylinder 2-1/2 Bore 1 Stroke, Category 2 | Agri Supply 84745

Its only 10 inch stroke and a bit short, but the Cat 2 rod ends fit the MX. It needs to be a couple of inches longer, but once I buy a welder, I'll fix that. I find it isn't too short to work at least OK.

#8 SAE (ORB) would be just fine. Use a ORB-JIC fitting and JIC hose ends. It would be perfect. I wish I'd have found it when I was looking. Price looks good too if shipping is modest. An SAE (O-ring Boss) fitting is typical on valve bodies and is better than NPT.

Hoses are best with JIC fittings. I would use your Magister cylinder, -8 ORB-to-JIC fittings on the cylinder (straight or elbow as you desire). -8 JIC hoses. Then a -8JIC-to-NPT adapter to the QD. I'm not sure your QD, but Kubota is fond of ISO7241B if I recall correctly. You may have to disassemble your QD Hanger and look for part numbers. Surplus center has pre-made hoses at a good price.

With pressure on the valve, hooked up to downstream cylinders or dead heading against an unused qd, it should return to center if it were that type of valve.

I just bought the agristoreusa 2/1 cylinder with hoses and everything together. It's a tad long, but that will come in handy if I ever get the Pats quick connect on my lower arms.

Category 1/2 Hydraulic Top Link: 25 9/16" - 39 15/16" | AGRISTORE USA

 

[BukitCase]

Couple of comments from my experience - (the NON-internet kind )

1 - I also disagree with Jeff's comments - not about implements shifting up and down, but the ANGLE - your box blade has a fixed rear blade, which is the way I use my 7' Gannon (with HINGED rear blade) more than 95% of the time - if you're trying to MOVE material or CUT material, your hyd toplink will let you tilt the box back so it's supported by the BACK blade, and "minute" adjustments will let you raise the FRONT blade to a less aggressive position. Conversely, tilting the box FORWARD will INCREASE aggressiveness and fill the box faster. (I will ALSO DISAGREE with anyone who says a hydraulic SIDE link isn't necessary - I recently added the side link to my old Allis, and NOBODY's gonna "pry it out of my cold dead fingers" 'cause they'll have a DEATH GRIP on it) :laughing: This is with ANY kind of blade; granted, not much use on a tiller or mower

2 - Fittings - I've changed several things on hydraulics on all 3 of my machines, and the VERY FIRST THING I do is eliminate NPT fittings wherever possible. You can get straight or angled adapters from NPT to just about ANYTHING, and normally they're only a couple bucks each for the smaller straights. NPT (especially what's available these days) are lucky to NOT leak the FIRST time you use 'em, and if you need a 90 degree one it's pretty much NEVER gonna point the direction you NEED it AND not leak - virtually ALL non-pipe fittings can tighten at ANY rotation. This lets you get that NPT cylinder or valve NOT leaking, then use a JIC or ORB 90 or 45 and go any direction you need.

... Steve

 

[MechanicalGuy]

Couple of comments from my experience - (the NON-internet kind )

1 - I also disagree with Jeff's comments - not about implements shifting up and down, but the ANGLE - your box blade has a fixed rear blade, which is the way I use my 7' Gannon (with HINGED rear blade) more than 95% of the time - if you're trying to MOVE material or CUT material, your hyd toplink will let you tilt the box back so it's supported by the BACK blade, and "minute" adjustments will let you raise the FRONT blade to a less aggressive position. Conversely, tilting the box FORWARD will INCREASE aggressiveness and fill the box faster. (I will ALSO DISAGREE with anyone who says a hydraulic SIDE link isn't necessary - I recently added the side link to my old Allis, and NOBODY's gonna "pry it out of my cold dead fingers" 'cause they'll have a DEATH GRIP on it) :laughing: This is with ANY kind of blade; granted, not much use on a tiller or mower

2 - Fittings - I've changed several things on hydraulics on all 3 of my machines, and the VERY FIRST THING I do is eliminate NPT fittings wherever possible. You can get straight or angled adapters from NPT to just about ANYTHING, and normally they're only a couple bucks each for the smaller straights. NPT (especially what's available these days) are lucky to NOT leak the FIRST time you use 'em, and if you need a 90 degree one it's pretty much NEVER gonna point the direction you NEED it AND not leak - virtually ALL non-pipe fittings can tighten at ANY rotation. This lets you get that NPT cylinder or valve NOT leaking, then use a JIC or ORB 90 or 45 and go any direction you need.

... Steve

Great point about the npt. They are stout though. I hate not having a stop point when tightening them.

 

[Michael In Tennessee]

Quick thought. The extra long cylinder might not retract enough to raise your implement as you desire. If you have Pat's lowers, it might be just right.

 

[MechanicalGuy]

Quick thought. The extra long cylinder might not retract enough to raise your implement as you desire. If you have Pat's lowers, it might be just right.

Yeah. It wasn't the perfect length in my mind. 22-34" range is what I wanted. But it was the most convenient all in one solution. Hoses and everything will snap together instantly with no adapters (I bought the hose kit) and it wasn't too high dollar and it was immediately available. I was only ever using my fixed top link down to 28" carrying the mower around, so this link will go a few inches shorter than that. The 39" extension is a little wacky though. It'll be perfect for some add on Pat's though.

 

[MechanicalGuy]

So I got this thing installed and what do you know, the valve is a spring centered...I don't know why it wouldn't earlier but it's good now.

I absolutely love this thing. It's slow and deliberate enough that I can make precise adjustments.

 

[Rustyiron]

:thumbsup:
I really would have never thought that they would be as handy as they are until I built my first one, primarily for "extreme bush hogging" where I have to back in over crazy tall woody brush taking about half of the cut, drop the mower and pull out finishing the cut doing land clearing-reclaiming basically. I don't do any real farming/tillage work where one may be unnecessary, but for the odd ball chit I'll get into it's a valuable addition for a very modest cost.