Talk to your kids about their future jobs

[Mike476]

I too agree with a lot of what's been said but would like to add, as someone whose eldest daughter just completed her bachelor's degree in animal science and whose youngest is starting her second year in nuclear medecine, that with the cost of post secondary educations today it is a tremendous risk that, even with the best preparation, is a gamble. If you are fortunate enough to be able to offer a college / University education to your kids you need to start talking about it with them early, utilising school counsellors and keeping up on the ever-changing world economies to see where the future lies to be able to make as sound a decision as possible when helping your kids make their choice. Otherwise all your kids will have in the eyes of future employers are the critical thinking skills thought to be gained from a post-secondary education.

Certainly fields such as medecine are relatively safe but there are no guarantees, and while as parents we plan from birth for this, the costs today far exceed predictions made in the late 80's, which were at that time thought to be excessive.

Science departments in Universities today are little else than R&D centers, with the students themselves making significant contributions towards the development of their fields. Classes are composed of upwards of 600 students, and the professors do little else than recite literature / PPT presentations found on the Universities web page (accesible only by students of the University of course). It's obvious with classes of this size there is liitle to no opportunity for students to benefit from the experience or perspective of the professional they've paid good money to learn from.

I only have my high school diploma, and while the average worker of the generation mine replaced had a grade 9 education, I don't know that we were any better prepared to take on the changes of the past 30+ years than they would have been if it were their times. I don't know that our kids will be any better off either, even with University degrees, but as parents we try to provide our kids with every tool we can to ensure they have options, the rest is up to them.

As a final note, as a NCM of the CF (CWO or E-9 in US), I've always debated a formal education as an absolute prerequisite to holding senior positions. We as a society have come to expect that our leaders are well educated, to the point where experience has taken a seat at the rear of the bus. We favour those well educated while those who have been in the trenches "doing the job" are only able to achieve a somewhat lesser position of authority. I often wonder if we reversed these roles, where those with experince were able to employ the critical thinking skills and sobering input from those with a formal education, if we would be where we are today. I received a call a couple of months ago from one of our develoment cells looking for one of my warrant officers because they were "in need of someone whose critical thinking skills were derived form somehere other than a formal education!" I chuckled to myself and provided him with a very sharp-minded individual whose life-experiences in the CF have provided him with clear and uncluttered perspective, I'm certain he will be a benefit to them....

Apologies for the long post, bit of a bone of contention with me.

 

[AlanB]

I am a retired college professor (taught income taxation and personal financial planning courses). Once I started school, I spent all but 5 of the next 56 years in education either getting an education (BA, MBA, JD, PhD) or teaching at the college level. I was a tax attorney for a big CPA firm for 5 years during my career. The last two years I have been taking welding classes at the local college. Here is a bit of information gleaned from 2008 census data regarding the value of a college education:

College graduates earn nearly twice as much during their working years as high school graduates. Information from the U.S. Census Bureau 2008 report reinforces the value of a college education: workers 25 and over with a bachelor痴 degree earn an average of $60,954 a year, while those with a high school diploma earn $33,618. Workers with a master's degree make an average of $71,236, and those with a doctoral degree earn an average of $99,995, and a professional degree earns an average of $125,622. Looking at it from a different view, over an adult's working life (45 years), high school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.5 million; those with a bachelor's degree, $2.7 million; and people with a master's degree, $3.2 million. Persons with doctoral degrees earn an average of $4.5 million during their working life, while those with professional degrees do best at $5.6 million. College graduation will qualify you for many jobs that would not be available to you any other way. Your career advancement should be easier because some job promotions require a college degree.

However I agree with most everything you guys said. Of course the above statistics don't consider the fact that specific vocational training for high school graduates may put you in a position to earn a great deal more than just a high school graduate, such as a certified all position welder. Many people are wasting their time in college due to pressure from their families to go to college, when they would rather be making something with their hands. Before and during college, I used to repair stereo and video equipment for my mother's TV/stereo store - a lost art today.

In my own case I always enjoyed working with my hands as well as thinking about the ramafications and complexities of our tax law. At this stage in life I prefer it. I would rather be known as a good craftsman than a shrewd tax expert, and as everyone pointed out we need more craftsman.

Maybe we are saying the same thing, but I think not.

As I read your post, I think it says college grads make more money, and I would say that generally translates to a better life, and I agree wholeheartedly.

FWIW my daughter is currently at Tn Tech to be a mechanical engineer. And I wish I had done more school early on, but too me, the point of the post is there is a LOT of folks out there that are just not cut out to be on the college track, whether they would make more money or not, and the current high school and very limited Vo-tech system I see remnants of left, leave these folks high and dry in my opinion.

In a couple of years my son will graduate High School, and I am not sure if he will college track or not, but the alternatives for education other than college are pretty slim. That is the problem I think our educators should be addressing.

 

[whistlepig]

We are fortunate enough to be hiring where I work now. A high school graduate that can read a tape measure these days seems to be a rare find. If you give them a level they will ask why there is a bubble in it.

 

[woodsmith]

I read this thread and thought how much it applies to the UK as well.

One post that caught my eye was this one.

I stopped by the local highschool welding class Friday. Some of the kids know me from town but for most of them I'm the old guy that does a class on occasion in the evening.

One of the things that I hammer the kids on is that employers for the most part, at least the ones worth working for, are looking for people that can think. They can get machines to chase a puddle better than an employee can. What they want and treasure is an employee that can think which is something they can't get a machine to do.

There's lots of kids out there would like trades work and be very good at it. It's just that our society doesn't encourage it. They don't want their little darlings getting dirty or having to sweat etc. That's a shame but it is what it is.

I teach too, it is becoming my main income away from my furniture making.
I qualified as a vehicle mechanic, electrian, welder and furniture maker among other non trade qualifications.
I don't have a university degree though. Almost all my friends have a degree education and yet even the best qualified of them say that I am the most intelligent person they know. It's not true, I just learnt, not my trades but how to think. Every few years I go back to college to learn something new just because I can.

At college I teach furniture making, fine hand crafted stuff, and despite the interdepartmental digs at each other in the contruction department we are all aware that 'thinking' is the one thing that we need students to have an aptitude for.
We can train anyone to, eventually, do a good standard of work on tools but they do also need to be able to think about how and why their skill is being applied and how to judge a job and its progress, especially when it is not a standard production run that has been designed to death.

In my classes the students have to progress a design from its original inspiration through to gallery exhibition and that involves being able to think far enough ahead to solve design and making problems before being stuck with them.
I spend as much time helping them to learn to think, where required, as I do helping them learn their skills even though it is not part of the curriculum. I do it because I can not see how to progress them otherwise.

 

[300UGUY]

Maybe we are saying the same thing, but I think not.

As I read your post, I think it says college grads make more money, and I would say that generally translates to a better life, and I agree wholeheartedly.

FWIW my daughter is currently at Tn Tech to be a mechanical engineer. And I wish I had done more school early on, but too me, the point of the post is there is a LOT of folks out there that are just not cut out to be on the college track, whether they would make more money or not, and the current high school and very limited Vo-tech system I see remnants of left, leave these folks high and dry in my opinion.

In a couple of years my son will graduate High School, and I am not sure if he will college track or not, but the alternatives for education other than college are pretty slim. That is the problem I think our educators should be addressing.

There are very few apprenticeships thse days. I looked into this locally, and there is not a single training program in our county. Employers do not want to do any training, they want someone else to pay for it. Community colleges are pretty limited, they seem to want industry sponsorship of their programs.

 

[ToadHill]

When I got out of High School I had 3 choices, the military, college or an apprentiship as a patternmaker.

I decided to take the college route and I'm glad I did. When I finished college I spent several years in a management position in a gray iron foundry and I got to know the patternmakers quite well. They were great guys amd very skilled but when hard times came and we had to lay off some of them, none were able to find work in their profession.

My job served me well for the almost 40 years I worked in Human Resources ( I negotiated Labor contracts) but if I'd taken the patternmaker option back in the early 60's I would have had to change occupations by the time the mid 80's came around since almost all foundries moved off shore.