Tapping into a well line?

[MNBobcat]

We have a deep well and it connects inside the house to a pressure tank. The pressure tank as a pressure regulator on it and I assume a switch that turns the pump on.

I want to connect to the main line before it goes into the pressure regulator or tank and tee off of that to go to an irrigation system in the yard. The theory being I'll get more water volume and pressure before the pressure regulator reduces it. The part I'm having trouble planning out is what would I need in order to turn the punp on?

 

[Deere Dude]

I did something like that by teeing in and running a line to a pole shed and sprinklers. You just need a valve turning on or off and for blowing the lines out if it will freeze in your area, I don't think you will gain any pressure or volume no matter where you tap into the line except maybe if you use a big line, but the pressure depends on how or if the pump can keep up or not.

 

[MF RED in MT]

A frost free yard hydrant connected to your well supply line for the house or a frost free hose bib connected to your well supply line under your crawl space (assuming you have a crawl space and your pressure tank is located in your house?) will supply the same amount of water/pressure when used + - .

Depending on your location in the country will dictate the depth of your well pump supply line to your house.

As long as you do not have a check valve between the hydrant/hose bib and the pressure tank, the water will be on demand until the pressure tanks pressure switch reaches the low point of pressure and then calls for your well pump to turn on.

At that point you should have the largest pressure for the hydrant/hose bib until the tank fills and then calls for the well pump to shut off.

I believe an addition to the system called a "cycling valve" might be what you are looking for to have the maximum water pressure at the hydrant/hose bib, but I am not familiar with that except when ever you open any faucet in your house, this cycling valve will cause your well pump to turn on (I think that's how it works?).


For me I would not want my well pump turning on at all the times that a fuacet is turned on for a few seconds/minutes.

Hope this might help you, and others with better knowledge may add to your thread.

KC

 

[PILOON]

Bladder tanks even out the tap pressure and only fire up when pressure drops to the low setting.
With a properly adjusted bladder system you hardly ever know when the pump cycles.
To prevent cycling often caused by minute leaks I always like to install an in line check valve close to the tank and not rely only on the foot valve or submerged well pump.

Actually in some cases, (like when line freeze is a possibility) a check valve at tank with a planned 'slow leak' at the pump will solve many a pipe freezing problem.
In fact a special foot (pump valve) valve can be used to allow a 'leak down' for those problem freeze lines.

 

[Valveman]

We have a deep well and it connects inside the house to a pressure tank. The pressure tank as a pressure regulator on it and I assume a switch that turns the pump on.

I want to connect to the main line before it goes into the pressure regulator or tank and tee off of that to go to an irrigation system in the yard. The theory being I'll get more water volume and pressure before the pressure regulator reduces it. The part I'm having trouble planning out is what would I need in order to turn the punp on?

That is not a pressure regulator but instead a pressure switch on the tank. It will turn the pump on when the tank is empty and the pressure falls to like 40 PSI, then it will turn the pump off when the tank is full and the pressure is at 60 PSI. It doesn't matter where you tap into the line, as long as there is no check valve at the tank. And you don't want a check valve at the tank as it can cause water hammer and air in the lines. And yes it is hard to tell when the pump is cycling on and off, but it is still very hard on the pump.

In the old days we would tap into the line where ever we wanted and just make sure our irrigation sprinklers put out as much water as the pump was designed to produce. If you have a 15 GPM pump, using 15 GPM for EVERY sprinkler zone was the only way to keep the pump from cycling itself to death. For the last 28 years I have been installing a Cycle Stop Valve to keep the pump from cycling no matter how much or how little water I use. With a CSV you can water anyway you want without hurting the pump. But the CSV needs to be installed before the pressure tank and before any water lines tee off. You could install it at the tank if you tee off to the irrigation after the tank and switch.

 

[Egon]

Bladder tanks even out the tap pressure and only fire up when pressure drops to the low setting.
With a properly adjusted bladder system you hardly ever know when the pump cycles.
To prevent cycling often caused by minute leaks I always like to install an in line check valve close to the tank and not rely only on the foot valve or submerged well pump.

Actually in some cases, (like when line freeze is a possibility) a check valve at tank with a planned 'slow leak' at the pump will solve many a pipe freezing problem.
In fact a special foot (pump valve) valve can be used to allow a 'leak down' for those problem freeze lines.

Recall all the hand operated outside well pumps with the pin hole in the tubing below the frost level.

 

[GSVette]

That is not a pressure regulator but instead a pressure switch on the tank. It will turn the pump on when the tank is empty and the pressure falls to like 40 PSI, then it will turn the pump off when the tank is full and the pressure is at 60 PSI. It doesn't matter where you tap into the line, as long as there is no check valve at the tank. And you don't want a check valve at the tank as it can cause water hammer and air in the lines. And yes it is hard to tell when the pump is cycling on and off, but it is still very hard on the pump.

In the old days we would tap into the line where ever we wanted and just make sure our irrigation sprinklers put out as much water as the pump was designed to produce. If you have a 15 GPM pump, using 15 GPM for EVERY sprinkler zone was the only way to keep the pump from cycling itself to death. For the last 28 years I have been installing a Cycle Stop Valve to keep the pump from cycling no matter how much or how little water I use. With a CSV you can water anyway you want without hurting the pump. But the CSV needs to be installed before the pressure tank and before any water lines tee off. You could install it at the tank if you tee off to the irrigation after the tank and switch.

So I have a csv in my system and have a frost free hydrant between the pitless and the csv. I had been contemplating using the hydrant occasionally for watering. You note above “But the CSV needs to be installed before the pressure tank and before any water lines tee off.”-I assume this is recommended because otherwise the csv won’t work when these lines are open.

Would occasional ( ie using my hydrant for occasional watering) cause any real issues?

Thanks

 

[Valveman]

Any water line that tees off prior to the CSV is not controlled by the CSV. But you can still use that hydrant if you are careful to use as much water as the pump can produce, so the pump does not cycle on and off. Or you can use very little water from that hydrant like to just fill a dog water bowl. But do not use any flow rate in between as the pump will cycle fairly rapidly. Any tee or hydrant after the CSV can be used anyway you want without a care.

 

[Mat4644]

If a pump delivers 20 gpm and your using 5 and the CSV keeps the pump running continuous then your running too much back pressure to the pump. Google this and you will find threads of people damaging pumps with CSVs.

 

[Valveman]

Lol Mat! In almost 30 years and a million installed there has never been a pump damaged in the least by a CSV. To the contrary, every pump with a CSV has lasted much longer than normal already. Back pressure is a good thing for pumps. It makes a pump draw lower amps, run cooler, and is what eliminates the the destructive on/off cycling. But these quotes do show the lack of knowledge by so called professional pump installers. As a matter of fact that one statement or question can be used to tell if your "pump professional" has any idea what he is talking about. When you here someone saying back pressure is bad for a pump or that cycling on'off doesn't hurt pumps, find a different pump man. If they don't know this one simple thing about pumps they have a lot to learn and you need to run away as fast as you can.

I will say this again. In 1994 Goulds and several other pump companies blacklisted the CSV as a disruptive product. They told their employees, "The CSV makes pumps last longer and use smaller pressure tanks. Goulds makes pumps and tanks, so any of their employees who mention a CSV would be fired immediately." The best pump engineers in the world couldn't find a single flaw with the CSV and they were afraid it will cut into their replacement pump business, which is does. Makes "techs" who say things like you quoted look pretty stupid. You won't hear any of the pump engineers or anyone who knows what they are talking about say something like that.

The best proof is from people who have a CSV and know how many problems they solve. Here are a few hundred you can read.
Reviews – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc