Taxes

/ Taxes #1  

Volnavy

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Messages
61
Location
Knoxville, Tennessee
Tractor
L 3400 HST
I am a first time poster and have found this forum very useful in my quest to buy my first tractor. This may be an odd question, but here it goes:

I have been shopping a little on ebay and noticed adds from companies. If I purchase a tractor using ebay across state lines it seems that I get out of taxes because it is an internet sale. With a price of 13-15 K, it seems like this is a huge advantage. Is my logic right or where am I going wrong? Has anyone done this?

Thanks,
Wes
 
/ Taxes #2  
If you are buying it as a business you are required to "self assess" the tax amount and send it to the state. Even as an individual, you are required to do so, however very few people do.

If you are audited by the state sales tax folks (a slim possibility), they could find it and you would have to pay as well as a penalty.

Doug /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
/ Taxes #3  
Do a search on this site regarding taxes. I recall a thread about tax liability where the dealer was audited and the buyer was contacted about the taxes due.
 
/ Taxes #4  
Not only can the dealer get audited, remember many states have agreements re sales tax. also if you finance, when the UCC gets filled, you may get caught.

andy
 
/ Taxes #5  
From what I read up here no one really knows on the tax issue. I'd like to see if anyone knows if this has been tested in the courts on large equipment purchases. The Federal and State laws are rather substantially in conflict. Feds say no sales tax and State says sales, use, or road tax. This will get tested if it hasn't already and only then will we have a SOMEWHAT definitive answer, or precedent atleast. Even if the Fed regulations prevail over the States it still wouldn't stop a zealous state collector from testing your tenacity.

Till then it's opinion and conjecture. Now someone step in and tell me it's the LAW. Which law?? Who prevails?? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
/ Taxes #6  
There are a couple ways to not pay sales tax in my county .

1*Have a dealers license and a vendors license with a sales tax exempt number.
2*If your land is classified as farm or ag property,
 
/ Taxes #7  
You're a college professor so why not present this question to a fellow professor of tax laws?
 
/ Taxes #8  
Read this thread and you'll get an idea of some of the ways you may be found out.
Anytime you buy from a company who has a presence in your state, even if the site is out of state, you're charged sales tax.
Buying on Ebay may be a way of avoiding this in many instances.
John
Tax thread
 
/ Taxes #9  
Here in Maine, you will be charged sales tax if you buy an item in state. If you buy it out of state, you are required to pay a "use tax" which is set at the same rate as the sales tax. The state income tax form actually has a line item for Use Tax. If you fail to volunteer the info on your purchases, and they discover it via an audit of an out-of-state business, then not only will you pay the tax plus a penalty but you can be found guilty of falsifying your tax return. The risk of getting caught may be small, but the consequence can be significant.
 
/ Taxes #10  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you fail to volunteer the info on your purchases, and they discover it via an audit of an out-of-state business, then not only will you pay the tax plus a penalty but you can be found guilty of falsifying your tax return. The risk of getting caught may be small, but the consequence can be significant. )</font>
Pardon me if I'm ignorant of the facts, but since when can a state government audit an out of state business? John
 
/ Taxes #11  
"..since when can a state government audit an out of state business?"

Ever since the government has been using taxation without representation.
 
/ Taxes #12  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Ever since the government has been using taxation without representation. )</font>
Yeah, now the representatives only represent themselves and their special interests. John
 
/ Taxes #13  
John, my main company has been audited several times by revenue departments from the surrounding states, it is probably more common than you might think if you do business in more than one tax jursidiction. My business deals with sales only to other businesses, and we do so in many different taxing areas, I think we've probably been audited by at least one of the jurisdictions every year. Many states have tax reciprocity, many do not. All but a few states have sales tax and use tax. A sales tax is levied on a business or individual that buys goods that are not intended for resale. A use tax is levied on a business or individual when the good is purchased from out of state and is applied to all purchases that would normally qualify for sales tax. States that do not have sales tax typically don't have use tax. Some states actually go so far as to charge a differential use/sales tax whereby if your state's tax rate is HIGHER than the tax rate where you purchased a good AND where you paid THAT state's tax rate, then your home state actually charges you the difference between the lower tax rate and your home state's tax rate. It is the obligation of the taxpayer to pay the tax, failure to do so can result in some rather unpleasant consequences if you get caught. Not everyone gets caught. But I'd prefer not to have to deal with the wrong side of any revenue department, especially if I was in clear violation of the tax code.

All that said, SOME states have agricultural equipment sales tax exemptions that exempt things like tractors if they are used in some very specific ways that vary by state.



DISCLAIMER: I often testify before various state and county legislative bodies on the effects of excise taxes and how they can impact state budgets, hurt businesses and even increase criminal activity via bootlegging of goods. I typcially am called to testify by various state or regional retail associations on behalf of small business, however I have been invited to testify by State Senators and Legislators on multiple occasions.
 
/ Taxes #14  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My business deals with sales only to other businesses, and we do so in many different taxing areas, I think we've probably been audited by at least one of the jurisdictions every year. )</font>
Yes, but isn't that because you're doing business in their jurisdictions? What I'm talking about are companies out of state, that have no real presence in the other state. As in a website with no retail business in other than their home state. How would a state be able to audit that company to find someone in that state that didn't pay taxes? I hope this thought has enough clarity! John
 
/ Taxes #15  
John, I think the LIKELYHOOD is that I am more suseptible to an audit because of the number of jurisdictions I do business in, HOWEVER, it is common for some companies to sell across state lines to consumers and get audited. Furniture companies get audited all the time for selling to consumers across state lines, the company is not liable for the taxes, it is the consumer who buys the goods who is liable.

EDIT: I should also point out, that my main business does NOT have a "physical" presence in any other state outside of Indiana
 
/ Taxes #16  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Furniture companies get audited all the time for selling to consumers across state lines, the company is not liable for the taxes, it is the consumer who buys the goods who is liable. )</font>
Thanks for the reply Bob. All I can say is CHILLING. John
 
/ Taxes #17  
I'm with you guys on paying the taxwhen it's owed. Just gave Maryland about $1,250.00 a few weeks ago on the Kubota. Bought it in state and paid the tax. Nothing to question.

However, I know from my former life of 9 years in business that the tax collectors are sometimes wrong on their accessments (application of regulation). Over those 9 years I went 2 for 4 against their decrees so I don't have any particular insight here. No better or worse than them I suppose. When I know their right I pay it. When I think I'm right I fight paying it, and pay it if they beat me at it. But these things need addressing upfront and take some time if you choose not to cave. There are risks.

Everyone knows the tax codes are a mess at both the State and Federal levels and could stand some serious overhaul. They will cloak some package in the near term as an overhaul at the Federal level. It will be as effective as the Paperwork Reduction Act.

If in doubt I'd recommend that all pay. Frankly, while I like the Federal waiver on out of state internet purchases, it is not their position to decide. Tax collection was, is, and perhaps always will be the legal pervue of the states. Just we got in some war once upon a time and forgot to lift the Federal tax once it was over. Now we got leeches on all appendages. Can't blame Uncle Sam. After all, He is us. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Good and sometimes headwrenching discussion guys /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
/ Taxes #18  
This is a very complex, convoluted topic. a lot depends on the state and the dealer u are dealing with. By law you are Required to pay tax in the state you reside. I.E here in N.Y there is a line on tax form askinf if you purched items out of state and/or on the internet, list the value and pay the tax.if it was me and i wanted to buy the tractor, go ahead and buy it and see what happpens.
 
/ Taxes #19  
A friend of mine here in Va says he saved not having to pay the Va sales tax buying a Kubota from the large dealer in Mt. Airy, NC. He claimed also to have saved a lot on the tractor price. The place even delivered it, for a deliver price of course.

I asked the salesman at JD where I bought my tractor locally about this. He said there were a lot of tractors that got flood damaged a couple years ago in that NE NC flood. Could have been one of those.

Ralph
 
/ Taxes #20  
Of course you don't pay sales tax on a out of state purchase when shipped out of state. But if your state has a Sales/Use tax you are responsible for paying it. Many people don't but they are breaking the law if they don't declare it in their home state. This is not a GRAY area. It's been this way for years.

Andy
 

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