TC 40D PTO Generator - Disappointing

[Soundguy]

I've heard that PTO generators often have trouble controlling voltage and frequency. That's why I went with a stand alone generator. A stand alone generator controls it own throttle to provide constant output.

A pto gen's ability to maintain freq will be directly related to the tractor's governor/engine keeping rpm steady. Same with votlage.. and of course.. load.

I'd wager the 'head' on most pto gens is at least as good as the head on a standalone gas job.

I can count on my tractor starting.. I can't count on a cheapy gas engine to start.. especially one that only gets used 1 time per year.

I've also noticed that the more excess hp you have available.. the less problems you have.

For instance. While my 27 hp 8n runs my pto gen adequately.. motor loads will make it chug-chug for a second. however.. my 70 and 95 hp ford 5000 and NH 7610 don't even breath hard when you kick in 5k and 6k loads...

Soundguy

 

[mjarrels]

Are you also running a electric water heater? My electric H20 heater has 2 4500 watt elements for a total of 9000 watts. Draws alot of power and you never know when it kicks in. Just a thought.

mark

 

[SPYDERLK]

Are you also running a electric water heater? My electric H20 heater has 2 4500 watt elements for a total of 9000 watts. Draws alot of power and you never know when it kicks in. Just a thought.

mark

I think those 2 heaters run sequentially - not together. First the top one to get a small amt of hot water quickly. Then the bottom one to finish up the whole tank.
Larry

 

[daTeacha]

My generator runs on natural gas, only 4000 watts, but adequate for our needs. I couldn't get the electronically ignited gas water to kick off for a while, but found that tweaking the governor and mixture settings on the genny changed the rpm enough to give me the exact 60 cycle current needed for the electronic ignition. Everything else worked fine, including the TV, fridge, water pump, and freezer. I do need to switch the current manually to run the pump, however.

 

[djradz]

Thanks so much for all the feedback. It's pretty sure I need to take this to the next step of testing and data gathering. In the meantime, I'll try to answer a few questions.

As I said, the generator seemed to perform better in the summer with a lot of A/C load and no resistive heat load, so maybe, as some of you have mentioned, I really had it loaded up quite a bit more now. That could be part of the problem, but wouldn't truly explain why the 40D couldn't keep up. Note that the generator has a 50amp (or maybe it's 60) breaker so if I was approaching maximum for the generator, I would have thought that would have tripped. I never should have gotten to the point of overloading the 40D. I do think I may nonetheless be loading it pretty heavy, so if the governor leaves something to be desired, maybe this could be it.

My fuel filter has been in for many years, but I get extremely clean fuel without ever any particulate or parafin and I've never had any fuel-related problems, so I'm not thinking that would be it but it would be any easy thing to change I guess. Tractor had plenty of time to come up to operating temperature and the the temp outside was about 20 F.

Up to now, I've always felt the governor was working, at least to some degree, because as heavy loads like the A/C or refrigerator were added, I'd see a small torquing of the generator on it's carry-all and everything would keep right on humming. Maybe the heater loads, since they come on and stay, are creating a more cumulative effect. Unfortuneately, I didn't measure the load current, but will now.

I have a Fluke 41 power quality monitor which gives me highly accurate readings of voltage, (and yes current - which I didn't use) frequency and harmonic distortion and also a very nice waveform LCD display. As I saw the frequency and voltage drop, I did increase the throttle, but really didn't pay enough attention to the actual RPMs. I did note that it appears that I didn't ever need to position the throttle to the point of getting the "540" to come one and if I did, the voltage would be about 135v and frequency at 63-65 hz with a light load. Obviously, as I loaded it up, I'd see both readings drop significantly.

I'm still leaning toward poor governor performance. Rick, I don't know what the "throttle linkage friction disc" is, so if ANYONE has a picture or page from the manual that would be helpful.

I'm still convinced that the PTO generator is the way to go (plenty of power and no additional engine to maintain) and I'm sure I'll figure this out. I just wish I had more time to play with it but when you're just trying to get power to the house, you tend to focus on what keeps it going and not on testing what might stop it. I really wish however I would have simply looked to see if as I was adding load, did I always move the throttle to a new position, and get the same RPMs/frequency/voltage, or not? I think that would have pretty much confirmed the tractor was not keeping up (which I already believe to be the case) and then I could have focused on what might cause that. Oh well, I guess I'll have to simulate the outage and put all the loads back on the generator before warm weather arrives. Thanks again everyone and if you have further thoughts, please send them my way.

 

[RickB]

The friction disc simply maintains the throttle setting. Not enough tension on the disc allows the tractor's normal vibrations to reduce the RPM setting. Problematic especially when no operator is near to re-set the throttle. A fuel filter "several years" old is unacceptable regardless of fuel quality. A new fuel filter should be your next step. The chance that a filter restriction is part of the problem is much greater than you realize.

 

[jinman]

I'm still leaning toward poor governor performance. Rick, I don't know what the "throttle linkage friction disc" is, so if ANYONE has a picture or page from the manual that would be helpful.

Duane, I'm not sure we have much of a friction disc, but the throttle knob/lever on the dash can be tightened. Mine was too loose when I bought my tractor and I tightened it up. There is a nut at the pivot point where the cable attaches below the dash. I'm not sure if you can get at it by removing the instrument panel or if you will have to take off the right side cowling below the steering wheel. I had my cowling off and tightened the nut while I was doing something else. If your throttle lever is nice and solid, you might not need the adjustment.

 

[602466]

I know I am not helping with your questions!

I also am in the market for a generator. I am looking for somewhere in the 12KW range. I have a TD40. Do I get a PTO or one with its own engine. I have been told these PTO's put strees on the engines for a long period of time. But then again what are these tractors for! Why have to service an other engine?

Any advice?

Thanks,

Wally

 

[Soundguy]

I wouldn't be relying on the breaker as a means to determine when your tractor is overloaded. I've seen 'standard' 50a breakers on 7kw units... what does that tell you?

Also.. I'd change your fuel filter even if it is not the problem.. I do mine once a year whether it needs it or not.

I'm surprised that you needed to add throttle and that your eng govner' didn't make up for it. Mine do.

The friction disc is at the base of the throttle linkage, probably under a dash cowl.

On my 7610s I was just able to get my hand in with a wrench to tighten it.. on a 40d.. you may have to remove the cowl to get room.

Soundguy

As I said, the generator seemed to perform better in the summer with a lot of A/C load and no resistive heat load, so maybe, as some of you have mentioned, I really had it loaded up quite a bit more now. That could be part of the problem, but wouldn't truly explain why the 40D couldn't keep up. Note that the generator has a 50amp (or maybe it's 60) breaker so if I was approaching maximum for the generator, I would have thought that would have tripped. I never should have gotten to the point of overloading the 40D. I do think I may nonetheless be loading it pretty heavy, so if the governor leaves something to be desired, maybe this could be it.

My fuel filter has been in for many years, but I get extremely clean fuel without ever any particulate or parafin and I've never had any fuel-related problems, so I'm not thinking that would be it but it would be any easy thing to change I guess. Tractor had plenty of time to come up to operating temperature and the the temp outside was about 20 F.

Up to now, I've always felt the governor was working, at least to some degree, because as heavy loads like the A/C or refrigerator were added, I'd see a small torquing of the generator on it's carry-all and everything would keep right on humming. Maybe the heater loads, since they come on and stay, are creating a more cumulative effect. Unfortuneately, I didn't measure the load current, but will now.

I have a Fluke 41 power quality monitor which gives me highly accurate readings of voltage, (and yes current - which I didn't use) frequency and harmonic distortion and also a very nice waveform LCD display. As I saw the frequency and voltage drop, I did increase the throttle, but really didn't pay enough attention to the actual RPMs. I did note that it appears that I didn't ever need to position the throttle to the point of getting the "540" to come one and if I did, the voltage would be about 135v and frequency at 63-65 hz with a light load. Obviously, as I loaded it up, I'd see both readings drop significantly.

I'm still leaning toward poor governor performance. Rick, I don't know what the "throttle linkage friction disc" is, so if ANYONE has a picture or page from the manual that would be helpful.

I'm still convinced that the PTO generator is the way to go (plenty of power and no additional engine to maintain) and I'm sure I'll figure this out. I just wish I had more time to play with it but when you're just trying to get power to the house, you tend to focus on what keeps it going and not on testing what might stop it. I really wish however I would have simply looked to see if as I was adding load, did I always move the throttle to a new position, and get the same RPMs/frequency/voltage, or not? I think that would have pretty much confirmed the tractor was not keeping up (which I already believe to be the case) and then I could have focused on what might cause that. Oh well, I guess I'll have to simulate the outage and put all the loads back on the generator before warm weather arrives. Thanks again everyone and if you have further thoughts, please send them my way.

 

[Soundguy]

Stress ont he engine? every load puts stress ont he engine... I think the advice you got was bunk.. I'd write off who ever gave you that info as not a good source of info.

A tractor engine is made to run at rated hp.. I would EXPECT it to do it till the fuel tank ran dry!

When I mow.. I mow for hours on end.. full pto rpm.. and quite a good load with a big mower...I don't stop to let the tractor rest!!!!

Soundguy

I know I am not helping with your questions!

I also am in the market for a generator. I am looking for somewhere in the 12KW range. I have a TD40. Do I get a PTO or one with its own engine. I have been told these PTO's put strees on the engines for a long period of time. But then again what are these tractors for! Why have to service an other engine?

Any advice?

Thanks,

Wally