TC 40D starter problems

[Qapla]

On our TC40D we have a starter problem. Sometimes it will only "click". After several attempts with the key, it will start. We thought "solenoid". We pulled the starter and took it to someone we know who has fixed starters and alternators for 40+ years (it is his business) and he did find something wrong in the starter/solenoid and fixed it. He also thoroughly bench tested it.

We put it back together yesterday and it seemed to work fine ... at first. Then it started "clicking" again instead of turning .... then, after a few tries, it will work. When it works, it works great, no dragging or missing.

We have wondered if it could be a "switch" problem.

Any ideas?

 

[jinman]

Yes, all these TC tractors seem to suffer the same starting problem from time-to-time. Mine has the click-click syndrome quite often now. Sometimes it takes a dozen key turns to get it to kick over. I think there is a voltage drop through the Neutral Start Relay. The current to pull in the solenoid has to go through the PTO safety switch and neutral safety switch before going to the Neutral Start Relay. If there is something dirty on the contacts of any of those three switches or the ignition switch, there's not enough current to energize the solenoid. If you directly jump the soleniod to 12 volts (hotwire it) momentarily, the starter will engage just fine. I've thought about just wiring in a start button that bypasses all the safety switches on my tractor. It would be something like the starter button that mechanics hook up to start a car from under the hood without having to use the key in the ignition. A heavy duty momentary contact switch wired between the big battery cable on the starter and the small solenoid wire would work perfectly. That's what I suggest you do if the click-click lasts too long. Just jumper the starter to get it going. I know it's a pain.

BTW: There's a sticky post at the top of the forum relating to the TC33 starting. It's the same problem and the added relay seems to solve the problem also. New Holland realizes this problem exists, but they won't help much.

 

[rayikeo2]

I had the same problem with my older Ford 1700. Intermitant starting. Same thing with the key. Turn it multiple times and sometimes it would start. I finally replaced the Key/ignition switch. That fixed the problem for me. The ign switch (on my 1700) has multiple contacts inside it and it is not serviceable because everything is crimped sealed. I cut my old one in half to view. These contacts get corroded and don't make good contact. But if you jolt the voltage at the starter solenoid it will arc inside the ign switch and cause a 1 time (or more) good contact. Then the starter turns over. I had replaced the starter and the solenoid last year. Still had the problem. So I bought a new ign switch which cost about $70 on my tractor. Problem solved. You might consider this replacement on your tractor. Here is a link to my previous post on the subject with pictures of the inside of the key switch. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...52-1700-ford-ignition-switch-replacement.html

 

[RickB]

There have been many instances among NH Class II and III compacts where internal corrosion in the positive battery cable has created symptoms similar to yours. Check for voltage drop between the positive battery post and the receiving post on the starter solenoid.

 

[Bruces715]

There have been many instances among NH Class II and III compacts where internal corrosion in the positive battery cable has created symptoms similar to yours. Check for voltage drop between the positive battery post and the receiving post on the starter solenoid.

I had that same problem in the first year I had my TC33D. It was under warranty and the dealer did the starter replacement, but the problem persisted. They installed a relay in the starter circuit and it solved the problem, all covered under warranty.

 

[RickB]

I had that same problem in the first year I had my TC33D. It was under warranty and the dealer did the starter replacement, but the problem persisted. They installed a relay in the starter circuit and it solved the problem, all covered under warranty.

Adding a relay is a viable option if voltage drop in the safety circuit is the problem.
But extra relays won't fix a corroded primary cable.
Troubleshooting will identify the problem; all we can do is suggest places to look.
The OP could have a corroded chassis connection on his ground cable and we'd all be wrong.....................

 

[jinman]

I agree with you Rick, but if he jumpers from the primary cable on the starter to the solenoid and the starter works, it's not a bad battery cable or connection.

 

[RickB]

I agree with you Rick, but if he jumpers from the primary cable on the starter to the solenoid and the starter works, it's not a bad battery cable or connection.

I'm completely missing where Qapla says jumping the across the solenoid eliminates the symptoms, or even mentions doing so.
My read is that it cranks intermittently before and after a starter and solenoid evaluation/repair. That leaves a lot of uncovered territory.

 

[jinman]

I'm completely missing where Qapla says jumping the across the solenoid eliminates the symptoms, or even mentions doing so.
My read is that it cranks intermittently before and after a starter and solenoid evaluation/repair. That leaves a lot of uncovered territory.

I don't recall where Qapla says he found a corroded battery cable or even mentions doing so. . . We can play this game all day, Rick, but I don't think it's helpful. You made a suggestion and I made another suggestion, period. I'm just giving my suggestion based on what my tractor does that is exactly like his symptoms and all my cables are fine. Yes, he could have a corroded chassis cable, but I think his symptoms point to something else based on his story of replacement and subsequent failure of the starter to work.

 

[RickB]

I agree with you Rick, but if he jumpers from the primary cable on the starter to the solenoid and the starter works, it's not a bad battery cable or connection.

To date, he hasn't offered that he's done that.

I don't recall where Qapla says he found a corroded battery cable or even mentions doing so. . . We can play this game all day, Rick, but I don't think it's helpful. You made a suggestion and I made another suggestion, period. I'm just giving my suggestion based on what my tractor does that is exactly like his symptoms and all my cables are fine. Yes, he could have a corroded chassis cable, but I think his symptoms point to something else based on his story of replacement and subsequent failure of the starter to work.

I'm not playing games. You need to read this thread again and take a minute to understand what is going on. I sell parts every day to guys that guess rather than troubleshoot. The only thing we are anywhere near certain of is the starter is probably OK. We have both offered additional areas in which to look. What are you getting all puffed up about?