TC 40D starter problems

[Qapla]

On our TC40D we have a starter problem. Sometimes it will only "click". After several attempts with the key, it will start. We thought "solenoid". We pulled the starter and took it to someone we know who has fixed starters and alternators for 40+ years (it is his business) and he did find something wrong in the starter/solenoid and fixed it. He also thoroughly bench tested it.

We put it back together yesterday and it seemed to work fine ... at first. Then it started "clicking" again instead of turning .... then, after a few tries, it will work. When it works, it works great, no dragging or missing.

We have wondered if it could be a "switch" problem.

Any ideas?

 

[jinman]

Yes, all these TC tractors seem to suffer the same starting problem from time-to-time. Mine has the click-click syndrome quite often now. Sometimes it takes a dozen key turns to get it to kick over. I think there is a voltage drop through the Neutral Start Relay. The current to pull in the solenoid has to go through the PTO safety switch and neutral safety switch before going to the Neutral Start Relay. If there is something dirty on the contacts of any of those three switches or the ignition switch, there's not enough current to energize the solenoid. If you directly jump the soleniod to 12 volts (hotwire it) momentarily, the starter will engage just fine. I've thought about just wiring in a start button that bypasses all the safety switches on my tractor. It would be something like the starter button that mechanics hook up to start a car from under the hood without having to use the key in the ignition. A heavy duty momentary contact switch wired between the big battery cable on the starter and the small solenoid wire would work perfectly. That's what I suggest you do if the click-click lasts too long. Just jumper the starter to get it going. I know it's a pain.

BTW: There's a sticky post at the top of the forum relating to the TC33 starting. It's the same problem and the added relay seems to solve the problem also. New Holland realizes this problem exists, but they won't help much.

 

[rayikeo2]

I had the same problem with my older Ford 1700. Intermitant starting. Same thing with the key. Turn it multiple times and sometimes it would start. I finally replaced the Key/ignition switch. That fixed the problem for me. The ign switch (on my 1700) has multiple contacts inside it and it is not serviceable because everything is crimped sealed. I cut my old one in half to view. These contacts get corroded and don't make good contact. But if you jolt the voltage at the starter solenoid it will arc inside the ign switch and cause a 1 time (or more) good contact. Then the starter turns over. I had replaced the starter and the solenoid last year. Still had the problem. So I bought a new ign switch which cost about $70 on my tractor. Problem solved. You might consider this replacement on your tractor. Here is a link to my previous post on the subject with pictures of the inside of the key switch. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...52-1700-ford-ignition-switch-replacement.html

 

[RickB]

There have been many instances among NH Class II and III compacts where internal corrosion in the positive battery cable has created symptoms similar to yours. Check for voltage drop between the positive battery post and the receiving post on the starter solenoid.

 

[Bruces715]

There have been many instances among NH Class II and III compacts where internal corrosion in the positive battery cable has created symptoms similar to yours. Check for voltage drop between the positive battery post and the receiving post on the starter solenoid.

I had that same problem in the first year I had my TC33D. It was under warranty and the dealer did the starter replacement, but the problem persisted. They installed a relay in the starter circuit and it solved the problem, all covered under warranty.

 

[RickB]

I had that same problem in the first year I had my TC33D. It was under warranty and the dealer did the starter replacement, but the problem persisted. They installed a relay in the starter circuit and it solved the problem, all covered under warranty.

Adding a relay is a viable option if voltage drop in the safety circuit is the problem.
But extra relays won't fix a corroded primary cable.
Troubleshooting will identify the problem; all we can do is suggest places to look.
The OP could have a corroded chassis connection on his ground cable and we'd all be wrong.....................

 

[jinman]

I agree with you Rick, but if he jumpers from the primary cable on the starter to the solenoid and the starter works, it's not a bad battery cable or connection.

 

[RickB]

I agree with you Rick, but if he jumpers from the primary cable on the starter to the solenoid and the starter works, it's not a bad battery cable or connection.

I'm completely missing where Qapla says jumping the across the solenoid eliminates the symptoms, or even mentions doing so.
My read is that it cranks intermittently before and after a starter and solenoid evaluation/repair. That leaves a lot of uncovered territory.

 

[jinman]

I'm completely missing where Qapla says jumping the across the solenoid eliminates the symptoms, or even mentions doing so.
My read is that it cranks intermittently before and after a starter and solenoid evaluation/repair. That leaves a lot of uncovered territory.

I don't recall where Qapla says he found a corroded battery cable or even mentions doing so. . . We can play this game all day, Rick, but I don't think it's helpful. You made a suggestion and I made another suggestion, period. I'm just giving my suggestion based on what my tractor does that is exactly like his symptoms and all my cables are fine. Yes, he could have a corroded chassis cable, but I think his symptoms point to something else based on his story of replacement and subsequent failure of the starter to work.

 

[RickB]

I agree with you Rick, but if he jumpers from the primary cable on the starter to the solenoid and the starter works, it's not a bad battery cable or connection.

To date, he hasn't offered that he's done that.

I don't recall where Qapla says he found a corroded battery cable or even mentions doing so. . . We can play this game all day, Rick, but I don't think it's helpful. You made a suggestion and I made another suggestion, period. I'm just giving my suggestion based on what my tractor does that is exactly like his symptoms and all my cables are fine. Yes, he could have a corroded chassis cable, but I think his symptoms point to something else based on his story of replacement and subsequent failure of the starter to work.

I'm not playing games. You need to read this thread again and take a minute to understand what is going on. I sell parts every day to guys that guess rather than troubleshoot. The only thing we are anywhere near certain of is the starter is probably OK. We have both offered additional areas in which to look. What are you getting all puffed up about?

 

[jinman]

Rick, anyone who reads this thread has no problem seeing who got "puffed" first. None of this is helping Qapla find his problem. My troubleshooting method and suggestion is as valid as yours. Personally, I think mine is even better. I'm gonna bet that Qapla has checked his cables many times, but he is welcome to check them again if he wants. Nothing is wrong with that. However, if his starter goes click-click and he jumpers the primary wire to the solenoid and it operates, that's a pretty good sign that the starting circuits are not getting enough power to the solenoid. It's a suggested troubleshooting method from a guy who has been troubleshooting for over 45 years. It's okay for you to disagree, but there's no need to twist the context of my statement. I won't be able to post for several days, so this peeing contest will stop. Let's both hope Qapla finds his problem. I think that's what we both want. Neither of us is suggesting he buy parts and neither of us can turn back the clock and stop him from having his starter rebuilt. Let's put our issues on the back burner and suggest valid troubleshooting to help this gent solve his problem.

 

[Qapla]

I posted shortly after we installed the repaired starter and used the tractor. During the install, I did look at the positive cable and did not see any problems with it. The connection where the ground goes was also clean and was installed tight.

When I first started the tractor it seemed fine. But, after using it for some time and shutting it off, I once again had the clicking and had to turn the key several times before it would start. This happened several times, but not every time. Then .... I got rained out.

I have not yet had the time or clear weather to check any further on the situation. It will most likely be Sunday afternoon before I will get to the tractor - if it is not raining ... 30% chance of rain.

I plan to re-examine the battery cables and starter connections. I will also put a meter on the solenoid line and see what I get when I hit the switch. (I hope the safety police are not reading this thread) I will also check the connection where the seat switch was bypassed - it came that way (used tractor) and I don't plan to reconnect it ... but, since I was not the one who bypassed it, I cannot speak for the connection.

If I do install a relay, I will probably not use the battery cable connection on the starter. It is not very easy to get to with the starter on the tractor, especially with a FEL installed. I will run a new wire directly from the battery.

I will post what I find and what I decide to do and if that takes care of the problem.

 

[AndyG]

My tractior is behaving the same way. Did you ever find a solution to this starting problem?