TC35 Shuttle Shift, Won't Engage When Hot

[dave1949]

Are you sure it not a clutch issue? When the shuttle doesn't want to move, can you change gears and ranges okay? You might check the clutch adjustment, just because. It's free.

I have a 12x12 gear w/shuttle. I stop to change directions and use the clutch too. I really like the placement of the shuttle lever. I can steer and shuttle with one hand.

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

I don't think it is a clutch issue. From what I remember every other lever moves freely. As it warms back up I will get her back out and see if I can reenact the problem.

Plan is to open up the plate on top of the tranny while cold. Hopefully I can observe the operation of the forks and see how everything is supposed to work. Then I'll put the plate back on and get her warmed up. hopefully I'll be on flat ground up by the house when it no longer goes into fwd or rev. At that point I will remove the plate again and see what is not moving as it should.

Not sure if I'll be able to see the issue or not but I don't think I would mess anything up by trying.

 

[jimmysisson]

I don't get why the manual doesn't talk about needing to declutch to use the shuttle function. They say synchronized, but that wouldn't work for f/r. And why would it describe shifting on the go between gears and no clutch? You'd still have to declutch.
Still, what you describe sure sounds like a failed synchro on the reverser. Bummer.
Jim

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

The TC35 doesn't have a Power Reverser or EHSSS so with this transmission you DO need to press the clutch when both shifting gears and when shifting between fwd and rev. I always do that. But the shifting between fwd and rev IS supposed to be synchronized as well. They tell you in their marketing materials that you do NOT need to come to a complete stop when shifting between fwd and rev. That is what people are suggesting as the culprit for the problem.

 

[boatyard]

The operator's manual for my 2005 TC35A with the," Synchronized Shuttle SHift Transmission" says,"The shuttle shift lever,2, is used to engage the transmission into the forward or reverse mode while depressing the clutch pedal. Move the lever frontward for forward and rearward for reverse travel The shuttle shift lever must be in the neutral[middle] position to activate the safety start system and allow the engine to start."
When plowing snow I have always shifted forward and reverse while braking or coasting to a stop, with the clutch depressed. I do not let the clutch out until the tractor has completely stopped. No need to use the clutch as a brake.
I don't know where I heard that this was OK. I thought I had read it in the manual. It has always seemed OK, no grinding or anything of that sort. It is actually very smooth. Should I stop doing this?

 

[jimmysisson]

I it were mine and ten years old, I'd stop to f/r shift. You're putting wear on the synchronizer making it slow and align the gear sets.
Jim

 

[RickB]

Let's think about what a synchronizer does. In this case it disengages from one drive element spinning in one direction and immediately engages (or tries to engage) a similar drive element spinning in the opposite direction (if the tractor continues to move). Some of the mating surfaces and friction elements within the synchronizer are soft yellow metal. This is a part that will have a finite number of harsh shifts in its lifetime regardless of the operating propaganda published in the manual. Why would we not come to a full stop before completing a direction change? The tractor will surely come to a halt one way or another in the process anyway.

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

Over the last couple days I have done the following:

1-Drained the hydraulic oil.

2-Popped off the top cover on the trans and taken some pics.

Right side of tractor - Forward gear engaged


Right side of tractor - Neutral engaged


Right side of tractor - Reverse gear engaged


Left side of tractor - Forward gear engaged


Left side of tractor - Neutral engaged


Left side of tractor - Reverse gear engaged


Left side of the tractor - Gears 1-4


Left side of tractor - Ranges 1-3

3-Removed the ball detent for review

Ball detent mechanism & paper towel used to wipe magnet off
The ball is in pristine shape, no wear in the chrome.

4- I fished in the bottom of the sump fwd/rev section with a magnet.
I did not find any metal shavings. Just a little gunk shown on the paper towel above.

5-Cleaned the suction strainer

Top of the suction strainer


Bottom of the suction strainer

This could potentially be cause for concern BUT this strainer has never been removed for cleaning ever. A lot of the shavings were long and curled which to me would indicate that they were from the initial manufacture. On the other hand a lot were just metal filings. Note: I don't see any wear other than very light wear on gears etc. anywhere in the transmission.


Crud I got off the strainer


The strainer after cleaning it off with brake cleaner and before I re-installed it.

6-I have replaced the hydraulic oil filter


In the near future I am planning on doing the following:

A-Refill the sump with New Holland fluid.
Question, when I went to the dealer they gave me MAT 3540 fluid. My book says to use NH 134D Fluid. The bucket says that it is a replacement for Multi G 134. Does anyone know if Multi G 134 was a replacement for NH 134D? I'll probably be calling the dealer on this. I don't want to put anything in there but the "perfect" fluid to rule that out.

B-Re-install cover plate and seat

C-Run it for a couple hours to get it up to temp.

If the issue goes away I will chalk it up to the fluid, the strainer, or the hydraulic filter.


If the issue remains I will:

I-Park the tractor and turn it off to see if the clutch may be causing the issue. Theory here would be that the clutch or throwout bearing or whatever does not totally disengage when warm. This would allow me to take it out of gear but not put it back in when the motor is running, which is what I'm experiencing. So in theory if this is the problem then immediately after I shut the tractor off I should be able to shift it from fwd to rev.

II-Take the seat and cover off of the tractor and take the temperature of the fluid in the transmission

III-Check to see what moves and what doesn't. Check the linkages, the fork, the ball detent. If I can't see anything due to the fluid being in the tractor I will drain it.

IV-Last thing would be to measure the clutch pedal free play when hot and potentially adjust it to where it was before the 1000 service. As part of this service I did adjust the clutch pedal free play. It was getting to the point where I needed to have my foot firmly to the floor when clutching and it would engage pretty quickly after releasing the clutch. By adjusting the free play, which is now in the middle of the spec, I should be alleviating any problem with the clutch staying engaged but it is something that I did change at that service and it needs to be looked into.


Manual


Current pic showing how far the pedal returnes after hitting tension

Anything I'm missing? I'm hoping to get the fluid grade figured out tomorrow and maybe do my testing Wednesday or Thursday after work.

 

[Wild Bill the 2nd]

http://youtu.be/s7aNX3bayu4
Video from left side

http://youtu.be/ZjVSMHlqnB4
Video from right side

 

[Harry in Ky]

I think at this point you're covering all the bases, and short of actually tearing it down, doing just about all you can.
For what it's worth, when I study your photos it looks to me that the color of both the forward and reverse synchro rings seem darker than those of the speed change units. With forward even darker than reverse. To me that indicates possible heat damage, which goes along with the whole concept of the problem. I can't comment on what that particular synchronizer has on the interior wear surfaces, but it may be in part, some of the dark, stringy material you found on the screen. That too, goes along with the symptoms. If it's on the screen, it's not doing what it was put there for.
My view on the colors may be just a difference in the lighting, but you can judge for yourself since you're seeing it first hand.