TC35D PTO brake

   / TC35D PTO brake #1  

jlong

Bronze Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2002
Messages
60
Location
West Virginia
Tractor
NH TC35D
I currently own a NH TC35D, which I bought a year ago. I previously had a Ford/New Holland 1520 with 1350 hours on it before the rear end went out, and I decided to move up in size to more easily handle some of the jobs.

The TC35D has 250 hours on it now and went into the shop for what I thought were some minor hydraulic adjustments. Turns out one of these repairs were not so minor. The symptom was that initially, the tractor was “difficult” to change from 4WD to 2WD. It was also sometimes tough to change gear ranges. After a month or so, I was no longer able to move the tractor from 4WD to 2WD. I figured that since this was all hydrostatic, it was simply an adjustment. After 2 weeks in the shop, here is what I have been told:

The 35D has a braking mechanism on the PTO. This device stops the PTO from spinning as soon as the PTO lever is set to OFF. The problem seems to be that I use a 6’ finish cut mower deck about 80% of the time. I sometimes use a 5’ Brush Hog. It was explained by the mechanic that the momentum of the blades of these implements put extreme forces on the PTO braking device, breaking the ring, which happened to fall and wedge between my 2-4WD gearing and jamming those.

My dealer highly recommended an external PTO slip clutch, which just slips onto the PTO and allow your implement to keep spinning until stopping on its own once the PTO lever is disengaged. I was told that without it, I would do the same damage. It costs $46.00; I bought it on the spot. (The dealer has since sent me a check for the $46.00, since I protested having to buy one in the first place!)

Although this is my first Hydrostatic drive tractor, I can’t understand why a tractor manufacturer would design such a feature knowing that many implements have spinning parts that would cause these failures!! I was fortunate that my machine was still under warranty, as the “fix” is written for 24 hours of service + parts. At $35-$40/hr. I was looking at well over $1,000.00 repair for a year old tractor!!

Are all Hydrostatics designed like this? I’m really questioning my decision on buying blue.

Any similar experiences/views??
 
   / TC35D PTO brake #2  
Jlong,

I’ve had a TC35D for about 5 months / 88 hours. I’ve noticed the same difficult movement of the FWD lever. I’ve found that if you reverse direction and creep…the lever will slide right out of ‘gear’. I think it has something to do with the preload on the drivetrain or something.

As for the PTO brake, you’ve got me stumped. NH literature and service/parts manuals don’t mention any brake on the PTO drivetrain. Maybe I missed it ?!

I do know that when you slide the PTO lever forward, you apply hydro pressure to the PTO clutch pack and engage the PTO driveline.

I think my brush hog spins after I disengage the PTO. The only time I remember it stopping immediately ( along with the tractor ) is when I hit a big rock with the brush hog !!!! I’ll have to double - check.

I’ll bet you had a problem with the PTO clutch pack. I think it sits right above the FWD gear in the housing and would drizzle parts down on your FWD transfer gear.

Maybe Spencer200 will jump in and straighten us out.
 
   / TC35D PTO brake #3  
jlong,

This sure dosen't jive with my experience. I regularly disengage the rear pto and my rotary cutter slowly comes to a stop. I do it all the time. Now my TC35D is two years old so maybe it changed since then but that seems to be a strange feature... Is the person who performed the work the same that did the work? Perhaps something is lost in the translation.

Peter
 
   / TC35D PTO brake #4  
It probable has independant PTO.
The independant PTO is usually turned on by a switch that hydraulics pressure locks in a clutch pack in the transmission.
This type PTO has a brake so oil pressure does it not turn the PTO when the switch is turned off.
This type PTO can be on standard transmission or hydro.
My DK35 has this type ,and I installed a PTO slip clutch when new to save wear on my brake.
 
   / TC35D PTO brake
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Thanks for the feed back.

Just to clarify--I also was able to move my levers by creeping either direction, I assumed that took some of the pressure off the drivetrain, and I too was able to change modes-- at first. Then as I mentioned, one day I was not able to get the tractor out of 4wd.

One of the first things I noticed about my 35D was that I was unable to turn the PTO shaft by hand when disengaged and the tractor turned off. It made it very difficult to line up the splines and connect an implement to the PTO. I checked with the dealer and that was my first introduction to the PTO brake. A friend has a TC29D and he is able to freely turn his. So, it seems to be a feature on just some of the TC tractors. The PTO brake does not stop the blades from spinning abruptly, but applies enough pressure to stop one from turning it by hand. How this translates to causing damage without the slip cluch, I'm not sure, but went on the advice of the experts.

Either way the PTO slip clutch seems to be worth the cost.
 
   / TC35D PTO brake #6  
Jlong,

I hate to be a rub, but I still don't think the TC35D has a PTO brake.

The service manual states the following:
" NOTE: The rear PTO output shaft cannot be rotated when the tractor is shut off and the PTO in the disengaged position because the PTO gear coupler, being constantly engaged with the powertrain."

It goes on to say that with a mid PTO kit, the shaft will free-spin.

I think the Class II boomers are different because they don't have a " live " PTO. They need a separate clutch pedal to engage the PTO.

Again, I'm not trying to bust you...I'm just trying to be sure we all learn the right stuff!!
 
   / TC35D PTO brake #7  
Well, I'm gonna jump in here because I've done testing and also have the repair manual which clearly shows a PTO brake.

13-188135-PTO-Brake.jpg

In section 31, it even gives the dimensions/specs for measuring thickness of the brake disc diameter and thickness. I'd hate for it to be thought that jlong's dealer was not giving him the correct info. The brake sits behind the clutch pack on the assembly as shown in the illustration from page 31-28 of the TC35/40/45 Repair Manual. The reason the PTO continues to turn after the lever is moved to OFF is that there is a bleed valve which slowly bleeds pressure from the clutch pack and allows the brake to set. If you have your PTO engaged with the engine running and then disengage it, you can turn the PTO shaft for a few seconds by hand (not long enough to hook up a rotary cutter unless you are extremely fast.)/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif This has been my experience on my TC45D, but according to my Repair Manual, the 35 & 40 have the same clutch pack even if they have mid-PTO installed.

I'm surprised jlong's dealer told him he should put an overrunning clutch on his PTO shaft. It seems like telling a person that their brakes will last a lot longer if they just allow their car to always coast to a stop./w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif I like having the blades on my rotary cutter come to a stop in a few seconds rather than in a couple of minutes. It seems to me that our tractors have been around long enough that if this part were a known problem, more of us would have heard about it. I'd say it's probably something we should be concerned about and maybe Spencer200 or other dealers who have access to a greater amount of service history would be able to shed some light. In the meantime, I like the way my PTO works and I hope I can continue to use it that way./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 

Attachments

  • 13-188135-PTO-Brake.jpg
    13-188135-PTO-Brake.jpg
    31.8 KB · Views: 497
   / TC35D PTO brake #8  
mmmmm YUMMY CROW !!!!

Well, that what makes this site so great !!! If your heading in the wrong direction...someone will grab you and set you on the proper course !!!

Thanks Jinman, you're a more thorough reader than I. I just scanned through and missed the few mentions of that 'brake'. I would have thought they would have at least had some dialog about it in the description of operation sections.

Jlong, I hope I didn't offend you by doubting what you had said.

I guess we are all learning something !!!
 
   / TC35D PTO brake #9  
<font color=blue>mmmmm YUMMY CROW !!!!</font color=blue>

Don't feel bad. I've learned that crow ain't too bad once you get past the feathers./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif The first time I saw this subject brought up, I told someone the PTO worked just like an overrunning clutch and I had to eat that "plate of crow" so I made sure I studied my manual in detail. Like you, I think they could spend a little more time and explain how all the parts work in operation rather than just the power flow diagrams. That may be somewhere in the manual too, but I haven't found it yet./w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif
 
   / TC35D PTO brake #10  
I guess I'm confused. I have a TC 35 geared tractor. When I disengage the PTO the cutter spins for a few seconds and slows, I thought, of its own accord. Yet the PTO shaft cannot be turned by hand when the tractor is stopped, and I have not tried to turn it when the tractor is running but the PTO disengaged.

So do I have a PTO brake somewhere in the linkage and does it matter?

Nothing in the operator's manual suggest anything with respect to need to protect a brake. The PTO is described as independent and actuation is a manual lever and hydraulic valve. The operator's manual level of maintenance does not describe any way to check such a brake. So far my ignorance on this point does not seem to have affected the performacne of the tractor. Is the consensus that this is something one should understand or that mental enrgy is better spent coming up with new tractor projects?

Chas
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

John Deere 2700 5 Bottom Plow (A50514)
John Deere 2700 5...
(10) 8' Treated Posts (A50515)
(10) 8' Treated...
2000 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Sedan (A50324)
2000 Mercedes-Benz...
UNUSED JCT QUICK ATTACH 74" VIBRATORY ROLLER (A51244)
UNUSED JCT QUICK...
2017 Kawasaki Mule 4010 4x4 Rescue Utility Cart (A50322)
2017 Kawasaki Mule...
SCAN FOR HAULING AND FINANCING INFORMATION (A51243)
SCAN FOR HAULING...
 
Top