TC35DA Wont start help

[mpilihp]

I see another similar thread for the TC33 but I think mine is different. Last time I used the tractor this weekend for snow cleanup it didn't immediately turn over when I turned the key to engage the starter. I wiggled the key and boom it turned over and started. I thought that would stink but will look at when warmer. Well I went to move it today and no starter activity. Lights on dash come on in the run position but no starter movement. My issue is I have a cab on and the way it appears you get at the switch, by lifting off the top of the dash I cannot do. That said, how can I manually bypass and engage the starter. I think I see the starter on the left side of the engine behind the bucket arm. Is the solenoid inside the starter and is there a wire there I can provide power to and engage the starter?

I just need a temp way to start it till summer when I can take the cab off.

Thank You

Phil

 

[thclimer]

I've often wondered that same question. Here is a picture of the starter on our TC33D if that could help someone describe what you do?

 

[seville009]

 

[thclimer]

So in my picture somewhere under the black cover, behind the lug which the red wire is attached, there is another terminal these two need to be connected. I guess for my situation you would need to remove the black cover.

 

[LouNY]

I've often wondered that same question. Here is a picture of the starter on our TC33D if that could help someone describe what you do?View attachment 731904

OK, the red cover is over the battery hot leads,
also a small red wire leaves there and goes up towards the firewall,
there is a second red wire that appears to go behind the starter solenoid.
Does it go to a terminal on the other side of the solenoid?
If so a jumper from the hot leads under the red cover to that terminal will act like a switch.
Your best way is to use a remote starter switch;

Also I would expect that there is another large stud from the solenoid to the actually starter motor the same size as the battery connection, it could be under that black cover or on the other side of it.

 

[mpilihp]

Thanks for the help guys, I will take a look at it.

Phil

 

[dlctcg]

@mpilihp - There are a few things you can try / check on the TC35DA...

I think I see the starter on the left side of the engine behind the bucket arm. Is the solenoid inside the starter and is there a wire there I can provide power to and engage the starter?

- Yes the starter is on the left side & the Solenoid is part of the start...

The first thing is I would check to see if you are getting any voltage at the Starter Solenoid when you turn the key to START... If you see voltage when you turn the key to the START position but it is less than 12V this will definitely cause an inconsistent starting issue. Obviously no voltage with the key turned to start is an issue but it seems this has been intermittent issue for you. Just be careful the large wire on the starter is always Hot... so be careful.

The solenoid wire is the small wire on the the starter solenoid in the picture the @thclimer posted.... It needs 12V when the key is in the start position.

You can apply 12V to the starter solenoid with the key in the run position & it should engage the starter & possibly start the tractor if there are no other issues... i.e. let you manually bypass and engage the starter.

My issue is I have a cab on and the way it appears you get at the switch, by lifting off the top of the dash I cannot do.

If I'm not mistaken you ignition switch is in the right side console... if it is... it is easier to access it by removing the right side console (4 bolts) but your cab may hinder that access also... if so it can be gotten to by taking the 2 screws out of gauge cluster & pulling it out (like you are accessing the fuse box... then you can reach down inside the dash & get to the switch..


Couple other notes on the NH TC's - If the Starter Solenoid is not getting voltage then it could be any of the following: Ign. Switch, PTO or Neutral safety switch, a Relay, or the Safety Module

If the PTO switch or Neutral sensing switch / bypass is faulty, the engine will not crank over.

Let us know what you find.

 

[thclimer]

OK, the red cover is over the battery hot leads,
also a small red wire leaves there and goes up towards the firewall,
there is a second red wire that appears to go behind the starter solenoid.
Does it go to a terminal on the other side of the solenoid?
If so a jumper from the hot leads under the red cover to that terminal will act like a switch.
Your best way is to use a remote starter switch;
View attachment 731909

Also I would expect that there is another large stud from the solenoid to the actually starter motor the same size as the battery connection, it could be under that black cover or on the other side of it.

After I posted the picture I began to wonder about the small red wire and had to go back to my owners manual. That small red wire is a modification to the starting circuit in which a relay was added to prevent a fuse that would intermittently blow. Thanks for the suggestion of using a remote start switch!

 

[mpilihp]

@mpilihp - There are a few things you can try / check on the TC35DA...


- Yes the starter is on the left side & the Solenoid is part of the start...

The first thing is I would check to see if you are getting any voltage at the Starter Solenoid when you turn the key to START... If you see voltage when you turn the key to the START position but it is less than 12V this will definitely cause an inconsistent starting issue. Obviously no voltage with the key turned to start is an issue but it seems this has been intermittent issue for you. Just be careful the large wire on the starter is always Hot... so be careful.

The solenoid wire is the small wire on the the starter solenoid in the picture the @thclimer posted.... It needs 12V when the key is in the start position.

You can apply 12V to the starter solenoid with the key in the run position & it should engage the starter & possibly start the tractor if there are no other issues... i.e. let you manually bypass and engage the starter.



If I'm not mistaken you ignition switch is in the right side console... if it is... it is easier to access it by removing the right side console (4 bolts) but your cab may hinder that access also... if so it can be gotten to by taking the 2 screws out of gauge cluster & pulling it out (like you are accessing the fuse box... then you can reach down inside the dash & get to the switch..


Couple other notes on the NH TC's - If the Starter Solenoid is not getting voltage then it could be any of the following: Ign. Switch, PTO or Neutral safety switch, a Relay, or the Safety Module

If the PTO switch or Neutral sensing switch / bypass is faulty, the engine will not crank over.

Let us know what you find.

Thank you for the info, so I understand better, to remove the right side console (where switch) I need to take out 4 bolts, but where are those four bolts? Unfortunately I am not there now. ANd thanks for idea on gouge cluster.

As for a replacement switch I see another thread where the person has a NAPA part number for one for a TC33 will this fit/work on a TC35? Is a KS6600 Seen here:

TC33D Glow Plug Problem Fixed

Well, I finally got around to replacing my ignition switch and in the process I believe I found my intermittent glow plug problem (with turning the ignition switch to the first position the glow plugs would not power up). Due to previous starting issues I had removed and disassemble the OEM...

www.tractorbynet.com

Thanks!

 

[dlctcg]

@mpilihp - no problem hope the info helps...

so there are really 6 bolts to remove both sides of the console, but if you only want to remove the right side where the Ign. Switch then you just need to remove 4 of them (note: behind the left side is where all the relays are).

To remove the right console you will find 2 bolts on the center line of the lower console (looking directly down from the steering column) where the two haves meet. The other 2 bolts are a little harder to find... if you open the hood to the engine & look all the way back on the firewall you will see 2 more bolt heads that hold the console one (there are 2 of these bolts on each side). Again I'm not sure how easy it will be with the cab on...

A big word of caution on these bolts if you have never removed them.... Spray them really well with some penetrating oil & don't force them. These bolts tighten into brass threaded inserts that are molded into the fiberglass / plastic console pieces & if you twist them to hard the inserts snap the console pieces & they will just spin & not come out... Don't ask how I know...

The NAPA Ign. Switch should work just fine... it is not a direct replacement so you will have to cut the harness on the TC & wire it up as others have. I've never done it as every time we had a starting issue it was never the switch....

 

[dlctcg]

@mpilihp - Attached PDF shows where the bolts are & Switch testing procedure hope this help...

 

[mpilihp]

@mpilihp - no problem hope the info helps...

so there are really 6 bolts to remove both sides of the console, but if you only want to remove the right side where the Ign. Switch then you just need to remove 4 of them (note: behind the left side is where all the relays are).

To remove the right console you will find 2 bolts on the center line of the lower console (looking directly down from the steering column) where the two haves meet. The other 2 bolts are a little harder to find... if you open the hood to the engine & look all the way back on the firewall you will see 2 more bolt heads that hold the console one (there are 2 of these bolts on each side). Again I'm not sure how easy it will be with the cab on...

A big word of caution on these bolts if you have never removed them.... Spray them really well with some penetrating oil & don't force them. These bolts tighten into brass threaded inserts that are molded into the fiberglass / plastic console pieces & if you twist them to hard the inserts snap the console pieces & they will just spin & not come out... Don't ask how I know...

The NAPA Ign. Switch should work just fine... it is not a direct replacement so you will have to cut the harness on the TC & wire it up as others have. I've never done it as every time we had a starting issue it was never the switch....

Awesome thanks for the help!

 

[mpilihp]

Thanks for the DOC!

 

[mpilihp]

OK, the red cover is over the battery hot leads,
also a small red wire leaves there and goes up towards the firewall,
there is a second red wire that appears to go behind the starter solenoid.
Does it go to a terminal on the other side of the solenoid?
If so a jumper from the hot leads under the red cover to that terminal will act like a switch.
Your best way is to use a remote starter switch;
View attachment 731909

Also I would expect that there is another large stud from the solenoid to the actually starter motor the same size as the battery connection, it could be under that black cover or on the other side of it.

Hi thanks for the help, I actually have one of these switches bought awhile ago but haven't used yet, different brand.

But my question is on the starter I just see one LARGE red wire from the battery and one small red wire which I am assuming is the wire from the ignition switch to trigger the solenoid is that correct? Attached is pics of my starter, appears the prior owner has hacked something on that small red wire at one point.

 

[lpakiz]

You guys have it scoped out exactly right--simply introduce 12 volts from the battery to the smaller red wire on the starter solenoid. This can be done with a small (12-14 gauge) jumper with alligator clips on each end.
What was not mentioned is VERY important--MAKE SURE YOU ARE IN NUETRAL!!!!
A guy a couple miles away from here spent most of a year in the hospital after he routinely jumped the solenoid after refueling and was run over by his tractor. Crushed his ribs and pelvis in numerous places. The first passerby called the ambulance, the next guy chased the tractor down as it was going across the pasture and got it stopped.

 

[LouNY]

I can't really tell from those pics, I would expect 3 terminals on the starter solenoid.
One from the battery cable to the solenoid,
then a small one from the tractors wiring harness to the solenoid,
and a third going into the starter body.
A remote switch would go from the battery cable terminal to the smaller one from the tractor harness.


If this is similar to your starter,
yes the remote starter would go from the battery connection to the small tab above it.
Likely were the previous owned tapped into it.

 

[mpilihp]

The second pic you shared looks like what I can see from my starter.

So I will give that a go, applying power to the small red wire to get it started.

Thank you all!

 

[mpilihp]

Hello so I was able to sucessfully start the tractor with an external clamp on starter switch so Im all set for the winter.

As for the side cover it doesnt look like taking the rear mount bolts out will allow taking it off with the cab on it so I think I will be trying to take the gauge pack out as you suggested, thank you for the help! I wont be trying that until it warms up.

Phil

 

[thclimer]

Glad to hear you are at least able to get her running. Its always nicer to be able to work on equipment when the weather is nicer!

 

[LouNY]

Good to hear it's usable, I see that taking the dash apart is necessary to work on the switch can you find the relays on your tractor?
It could just be a bad relay or a wire popped off of the added in relay.