TC40 Rabbit / Turtle switch not working, switch and relays replaced.

[IsuzuDon]

Hi all,

My first posting so excuse me if I come across incorrectly. Let me also say, I am highly impressed with the knowledge that is contained within the New Holland forum. I have already saved numerous dollars by following the advise given here.
Problem:
I bought my TC40 used. When purchased, the rabbit / turtle switch would not go into transport speed. After reading the forum, I noticed it was a common problem. I replaced the switch and the two relays involved with the transport mode, and inspected the plug at the solinoid going into the transmission housing, and brake switch. All appear to be normal or satisfactory. I am assuming there is a way to test the solinoid, and or the circuit to confirm it is working properly. I, had also applied electric grease to the contacts to insure there would not be future corrosion in the fusebox or switch . I would truly appreciate any feedback to this problem I am having. I am not sure (new to this) If I get a message back on this, so please feel free to contact my private message. Thank you all and look forward to fixing my machine.

Don

 

[jinman]

:welcome: IsuzuDon! I hope you enjoy the forums and TBN.

There are several things we need to know about your tractor and some common terms we need to lock in so that the discussion does not become confusing.

The first thing about your tractor is whether it has a FEL and if that FEL is a 16LA. This is important because with an FEL, you have a rabbit/turtle switch on the right fender and also on the joystick of the 16LA FEL. If you have a loader other than NH, then the joystick switch won't be there. (See how this gets complicated in a hurry?)

The second thing is to refer to the speeds the same way that NH does. Your tractor has a Range lever on the left fender. It is Range I - Neutral - Range II. Most of us refer to range I and II as Low and High. The rabbit/turtle switch is just referred to as rabbit-turtle rather than calling one of the speeds "transport." I'm confused by what you mean as "transport mode."

When there is no power to the rabbit/turtle solenoid, the transmission reverts to turtle speed only. You can have low range/turtle and high/range turtle by changing the range lever on the fender, but you can never switch over to the rabbit speed. Is that the way your tractor works?

How about the orange lights on your fender switch? When you switch to rabbit or turtle, do the corresponding lights illuminate and stay on? If you switch with the joystick buttons, do the lights change on the fender switch also? Is the switch you replaced the fender switch or the joystick switch?

Don, I know I've asked lots of questions, but I don't want to have you checking something that is a waste of time. If you can give me a bit more info and we can use common terminology, I think we can resolve your problem. Here is what I will probably want to do (not necessarily in this order):

1. Make sure the rabbit/turtle solenoid is good.
2. Make sure the wiring is correct.
3. Make sure the switches are connected.
4. Make sure the FEL switch is not defeating the action of the fender switch.
5. Trace power through the circuit.

I think we can fix your problem, but it will just take a little time and patience.

 

[SuperCobra]

Seems obvious and maybe you already did this if you traced the wiring but look for a dangling plug. Happened to me and that is what it was. A plug came loose. I can go back out and look but if i recall correctly it is on the port side underneath the floor board around where your left foot would rest.

 

[jinman]

Seems obvious and maybe you already did this if you traced the wiring but look for a dangling plug. Happened to me and that is what it was. A plug came loose. I can go back out and look but if i recall correctly it is on the port side underneath the floor board around where your left foot would rest.

Shouldn't that be the port side underneath the deck? You gotta keep your nautical terms consistent.

I tend to agree with you, but Don said he checked the wires to the solenoid, so I would think he had confirmed that there were no breaks. He needs to check for 12 volts DC with the tractor running and the rabbit button depressed also. If he is getting voltage and the solenoid is not engaging, that's a whole different can-o'-worms. My guess is that the joystick switches might be stuck and kicking him back to turtle everytime he is going to rabbit. If he has a loader and can disconnect the plug going to the joystick switches, he can isolate his fender switch and test this out.

Also, Don mentioned a PM, so he might be not checking back and hoping for a PM alert from TBN. If he doesn't respond in a few days, I'll send him a PM and tell him he should log back in for help. The problem with PMs is you cannot do attachments and show circuits to check, so you are handicapped trying to offer advice through a PM.

 

[IsuzuDon]

Hi Guys, Don here again. Had some medical issues I was dealing with. Things were dark for a while, now better yet still hurtin. Here are a few things I had failed to note during my first post....

1.) I have a tractor only, no loader.... used Loader to go on soon.

2.) I replaced the rabbit switch on the fender, and it does light up (glow) on the rabbit side when the switch is moved on / engaged.

3.) Two new relays put into the fuse / relay box. These were for the transport (rabbit) mode.

4.) The brake switch not triggered. (not sure if important or not)

5.) Wires to the solinoid appear to be intacted and secure, wasn't sure if I could volt/ohm the solinoid and measure resistence or if I should measure voltage to and from solinoid.

6.) Yes, never switches to rabbit speed in either range. I had used the term tranport mode meaning the rabbit upper speed. I ran in high range, and it still is very slow(assuming turtle speed). My little 1620 hydro much quicker traveling down the road in it's high range.

7.) I cleaned the relay contact socket (female ports / relay blocks)and then coated with electric grease to prevent water,dust or other to get in to the contact points. I did the same on the switch.

8.) I have not pulled the solinoid out of the transmission. I am unsure of what is behind that item? (oil, or how it engages)

9.) I bought the tractor with 465 hrs on it. The wiring appears to be factory. The only item that was removed/ bypassed was the seat kill switch. (former owner cut and spliced)

I want to thank you for your help. I had checked back a few time for PM's and now know why it is a less used format. I happened to re-google the question and my post came up with your answers. Warm greetins to you from Buffalo, NY....Don

 

[ENTS]

...5.) Wires to the solinoid appear to be intacted and secure, wasn't sure if I could volt/ohm the solinoid and measure resistence or if I should measure voltage to and from solinoid.

I just got done repairing my coil on that solinoid. It measures around 8.8 ohms.

...8.) I have not pulled the solinoid out of the transmission. I am unsure of what is behind that item? (oil, or how it engages)

If you need to pull the coil, it's easy enough to do, there's a nut on the end, take that off, the spacer behind the nut, and then just slide the coil out.

Jim provided this when I was working on mine.

 

[IsuzuDon]

Hi and thanks for the diagram. I ahhhhh will attempt to remove coil as soon as I am able to clean a space in my garage. We are sitting on about a foot of snow. Just don't feel like laying in the snow. What did you have to do to repair your coil? wiring? or was it just stuck? Thanks again, good to hear from you guys. Best to you and your families....don

 

[lhfarm]

Welcome to TBN. Several of us have had problems with the Hi/Lo switch. Go to the search page and enter rabbit turtle switch. You will find a number of posts, including ENTS'. Lots of great, knowledgeable folks here who will help you get it fixed.

 

[ENTS]

... I ahhhhh will attempt to remove coil....

The only real reason to pull the coil would be if you do not have continuity thru the coil. You can check that while it's on the tractor. I had to pull mine because one of the wires was ripped off where it entered the coil. If you have good continuity thru the coil, check the wires on the tractor side, one should have ground on it. The other wire goes to the "Range Hi Shift Relay" (pin 5).

Later,

 

[jinman]

Fred, you are giving great advice. Thanks for jumping in and helping IsuzuDon. Your advice about checking the solenoid before attempting removal is exactly what I would do.

Don, are you really familiar with your meter? If you are, this is going to be a lot easier for all of us. If you are good at measuring ohms (especially low ohms below 10) and also know how to look for DC volts, that's all you need to troubleshoot. I think there is a good chance that you are having some relay problems and things are not "latching in" as they should. You also could have some other problems, but it's best to take things one step at a time and eliminate them before going to the next step. When we hear the results of your measuring the solenoid coil, we'll go to the next step. BTW: a long jumper wire with alligator clips on each end might also come in handy if you have one available.

 

[IsuzuDon]

Greetings again from the land of white. I can't thank you guys enough for kicking in some advice. I can barely afford to own the equipment. I do not have the resources to take it to the dealer for this type of repair work. I have been doing grade work since 1986, using a 1620 which is also a great little machine. I injured myself ( torn ligiments on my foot) and haven't been able to work the two jobs I always have. I have always had a love of equipment since I was about five years old. Since dad was a white collar guy I had to make or build, or garbage pick anything I wanted ( go carts, mini bikes,lawn mowers, etc...) One night while plowing snow during a storm, I saw a large 4 wheel tractor backdrag a driveway in 30 seconds. At that point I knew I had to have one. I bought my first 1910 and put a cab on it for plowing. Since then I moved to a 1620HST and used that exslusivly for putting lawns in for the last fifteen years. This past summer I stumbbled across this TC40 from a guy who was closing down his landscaping business. He worked it hard, but it was in good shape and I am just working a few bugs out of it. I stumbbled across Tractorbynet by googling a problem I had with the 3pt lift (overtighted castle nut) that I found the answer here for, and then a starting problem( found answer here again) and etc... I had some surgery a while back and was on some meds that made everything dark and gloomy. I didn't come back here to TBN for a while. I am so glad to be back and talking with you guys. I am located between Buffalo and Niagara Falls. Should you guys ever need anything up this way, let me know. I thankyou and look forward to testing the solinoid soon. I know a little on the volt / ohm meters, enough to get through the basic testing. I hope to put the tractor in the garage here with a few days. Working on a skid sprayer currently inside.
Have a great day,
(looking out the window) and "Oh good, it's snowing again"

Goodday,

Don

 

[jinman]

Don, I think I can speak for everyone here that you are a welcomed addition to this forum. We understand your need for DIY repairs. Some of us do it because we must and others because it is so much fun and so rewarding to fix our own stuff. I'm glad your health problems seem to be behind you and you are again feeling better. I can assure you that we will stick with this until we know exactly what is wrong with your tractor. I will personally try to give you all the help I can, and I know this site is full of other people who will do the same. We will work at your speed and opportunity. When you have the time, we'll be here to get 'er done.

 

[IsuzuDon]

Hi Guys,

I'm back and have the tractor sitting in the garage to worked on. I have done the following.

1.) tested the solinoid for continuity(?spelling). It comes back as a complete circuit with an ohm reading of 9.3

2.) I then checked the ground going back from the wire that returns from the solinoid, and I do have a complete ground.

3.) I turned on the tractor (ignition switch to run) and tested the wire from the relays to the solinoid. The rabbit switch lit up and testing the wire to the solinoid showed power. (lightbulb circuit tester used)

4.) Assuming it is the spool in the solinoid and or the plunger. I have most of it out except the spool (and maybe) the plunger. Can you tell me If I can tap the spool/plunger out from (looking at it from the side) the left side where the cap is towards the right side where the solinoid sits? Or does it only get pulled out from the rightside(backside of tractor)?

Again I appreciate all of your help. I am looking forward to getting it back together and give it a try.

Thankyou Don

 

[jinman]

Don, I'm posting a scan of the Repair Manual that shows the solenoid valve. If the spool does not shift inside the valve, there is a plug on the opposite side of the valve body that can be removed and maybe push the spool out from that side. There should be a spring that returns the spool to the turtle position when the solenoid is deenergized.

 

[IsuzuDon]

Hey Jim,

You got it! After tracing the power(which was good) back towards the solinoid, I had power all the way thru the circuit. With no clicking of the solinoid, I pulled it apart and found exactly what you had said. The spool was stuck/Jammed inside the of the bore section of the valve. I pulled it out, and cleaned it up with some steel wool. I put it back together and turned ignition on, and cycled the switch. I heard both the solinoid and the relays clicking. I haven't run it yet, I want to change the hydralic fluid and filter.
I want to thank you for all the help and support you have given me. It is awesome to know their are some guys who will help a stranger. Keep it in mind, should you ever get to Buffalo, or Niagara Falls, give me a heads up and I'll show you the town and treat you for dinner. My next project is to put a front end loader on it. I found a used (factory) one for $3000. I didn't think that was too bad.
Hope you and your family are well, and will drop you a line here and there.

Best to you,

Buffalo Don

 

[jinman]

Don, I'm glad you found the problem and we could help. Lately, two people have had special problems with that valve. The other person had wires broken of the solenoid coil. I hope your hydraulic fluid change goes well and your rabbit/turtle feature continues to function well for you.

BTW: A couple of years ago, my wife gave us a trip to Niagara Falls for my birthday. You never know when we just might show back up there sometime because we really loved the Falls and our trip.:thumbsup:

 

[ENTS]

Niagra Falls -- SLowly I turned .....Hmmmm, now what movie was that from.

BD,

Glad you found the problem. Mine was easy compared to your problem. Good luck with the front loader.


Later,

 

[jimmysisson]

Not a movie, a 3 stooges routine.

 

[ENTS]

Seems to have been a very popular routine. Not sure who did it first but the stooges did it, Abott and Costelo, Lucy, Mike douglas (with Moe Howard). Key word search (Slowly I turned) brings up a ton on U-tube.

We return you now to your original thread "...Rabbit...Turtle..." Hmmm, that one sounds familiar......................

Later,

 

[dynasim]

I am reasonably sure that Jim could criss-cross the country, and never have to buy a meal. He has helped a lot of people(directly and indirectly).

If Jim is ever on I-70 in Kansas, I hope he drops me a line. It would be great to have the honor of buying his family a meal(or, even better, having them stop for a visit!).

Chris