TC40D no forward/reverse or pto

[gould37]

I have a TC40D tractor that recently lost forward and reverse movement and the pto. I checked the fluid level and it seems to be ok. The bucket, steering and the 3pt hitch all seem to be working fine. Prior to this the tractor did not seem to have much power when running in foward or reverse up an incline or scrapping with the bucket. It also was lacking for power when pulling. Just would not go in either direction. Has anyone experieced this issue, or have any advice. All would be welcome. Also, is there a source for used service manuals for this machine at a reasonable price?? Thanks in advance.....

 

[jbrumberg]

gould37:

Welcome to the "Blue". It sounds like it is the seat safety cut-off switch. Jay

 

[jimmysisson]

I don't own a hydro but it sounds more like a plugged filter, if you lose all those hydraulic functions but the motor keeps running ok. How many hours, last serviced, do you know?
Jim

 

[jinman]

I think your problem sounds like the one DocHeb had on his machine after a few minutes of operation. The input shaft to the transmission is connected with a splined collar. His collar moved out of place, essentially removing the engine's input to the transmission. Your problem has got to be something similar. The PTO is a mechanical connection engaged with a clutch that uses the same hydraulic pressure that runs the 3PH and FEL. You can engage that clutch, but there is no mechanical input because the engine is not connected to the transmission. You can hope that your problem is the same as DocHeb's tractor, but it could be worse if the input to the transmission and charge pump are involved. That's where it gets expensive.

Since your PTO is not working in addition to the transmission, I'm afraid you will have to split the tractor to see what the issue is. I can only hope that it is the splined collar and you will be able to repair the tractor at the lowest possible cost.

I'm sure Chris (DocHeb) will see this post and add more info.

EDIT: Your HST transmission uses the same filter as the main hydraulic system that runs the FEL and 3PH. It has an HST filter that is in addition to the reservoir filter, but that would not stop the PTO from working. That's the clue that tells me this is a mechanical disconnect between the engine and transmission and not a fluid supply issue. If you want, you could remove the main hydraulic filter and look for metal shavings, but that would still not tell you anything that would keep you from having to split your tractor.

 

[gould37]

Thanks for all the input, please keep it coming. I think the last time the hydrolics were serviced was over the winter. We run a log splitter off the pto, so I would say maybe we have 30-40 hrs since last serviced. The hour meter is not working, but we do service the tractor a few times a year. JINMAN, any idea how big a job it is to split the tractor, or where I can get a service manual at a reasonable price. do you know of any good places for parts? I have had issues with the local blue dealer, not getting the right parts, no technical help, etc and I have two of these tractors that get used regularly. Always chasing parts it seems. I am located in the northeast. Thanks again for all your help and please keep all the great information coming in.

 

[gould37]

One more thing that might be important. This particular tractor has had issues going up inclines and pushing/pulling any weight since we had the motor rebuild. I hope this helps. The dealer that did the motor claims all was fine and they didn't cause this issue...

 

[jinman]

I have never split a tractor and I don't know the tricks or how hard a job it is. That's what I was hoping DocHeb would supply as well as maybe a NH tech who might see this post. I have a Repair Manual I bought when I first got my tractor and it was over $300. The best choice would be the CD that is a lot cheaper. If you want one or two illustrations, PM me and we can discuss that. As long as you don't expect me to scan a whole chapter out of the manual, I'll help you out. I wouldn't mind sending you a few pages, but if you have two of these tractors, you really need to invest in the CD. It will be money well spent.

If you want parts, I'd think about Messicks.com or Partspring.com, both of which are sponsors of this site and very responsive. I buy filters from Neil Messick online. They both have illustrated parts diagrams on their sites and that may be all you need to see where the problem probably is.

I truly wish I could advise you on splitting your tractor, but I will not guess and take a chance of telling you something wrong. It's very important to me that I know for sure what I tell you is correct and not just a best guess. I'm sure you can appreciate that.

 

[jinman]

One more thing that might be important. This particular tractor has had issues going up inclines and pushing/pulling any weight since we had the motor rebuild. I hope this helps. The dealer that did the motor claims all was fine and they didn't cause this issue...

Motor rebuild? Did they split the tractor? This is sounding like the splined collar may have not been re-installed correctly or is cracked and slipping. When the tractor would not go up an incline, was it in low range? I'm beginning to get an idea of what you may find when you split your tractor. Of course, I don't know for sure, but this is sounding like maybe a rollpin was left out of the splined collar and it moved and cracked, leading to total failure. Now, this is just a fairy tale based on my imagination. It is plausible, but you won't know the facts until you look at it with your own eyes.

Here is an illustration of the front transmission housing and the engine interface. Item #19 is the damper on the engine that replaces the clutch. Item #8 is the engine/transmission interface shaft that has to be in place since there is no clutch on this model. Item #6 is the splined shaft that connects the interface shaft to the transmission input shaft. I was wrong that it has a rollpin. It has a lockring instead, item #7. This is where I think you will find your problem.

Here is the illustration of the transmission. The input gear shown on the left would mesh with the splined collar on the front transmission diagram.

 

[gould37]

Jinman, thanks for the great advise so far. I am trying to gather as much info as possible before diving into this task. You are right about the tech manuals, the only issue is the one tractor is a tc40d and one is a tc40da. NH list two different books, the one being aroung $300 and the other over $400. So you see why I am a little hesitant. Those images you included were fantastic. I will keep you posted on what I find and thanks for all your honesty.

 

[dqdave1]

I would think one cd would be sufficent for the 2 tractors.

 

[JC-jetro]

I think Jim got it right as far as not transferring engine power to transmission thru the input shaft.

This could happen two ways either what Jim said ( a total mechanical failure or damage to splines on input shaft or shafts), or the clutch disk.

In the latter scenario the pressure plate and flywheel might not squeezing the clutch plate hard enough, basically a slipping clutch. Slipping clutch can manifest itself both in drive and pto. The bad part of it is you still need to split the tractor to check, and good part is changing clutch will be less expensive that changing broken mechanical pieces.Do you know if you have any inspection hole on the clutch housing to look inside?

JC,

If I could, on smaller tractor probably lift the back end of tractor on stand and try to turn the wheel by some mechanical advantage to see if I can turn it with the clutch engaged and tractor in gear. That might give some clues if slipping.

 

[jinman]

JC, there is no clutch or pressure plate on this tractor. What looks like a clutch plate is only a damper disk that is bolted to the flywheel. That's why the short shaft is inserted into the damper on the engine side and mated with the input to the HST transmission with the splined collar. New Holland built a unique tractor with no clutch. I love it. There is no need for a clutch on my tractor or it's siblings the TC40D and TC35D.

 

[JC-jetro]

Jim,

How about them apples Now, you gave me a reason to get the skinny on TC40D. Gotta go to NH website to see it from close.

Thanks,
JC,

 

[jinman]

Jim,

How about them apples Now, you gave me a reason to get the skinny on TC40D. Gotta go to NH website to see it from close.

Thanks,
JC,

Go down to your closest NH dealer and drive one. But don't blame me if one follows you home. You'll have to ask your wife if you can keep it.

Yeah, the engine turns the transmission anytime it is running. Of course, with the pedals in neutral, the HST's hydraulic pump is not pumping any fluid and the the tractor doesn't move. The PTO drive goes through the transmission and an idler gear. When you want to run the PTO, you have a lever that controls a valve to divert hydraulic fluid to a hydraulic clutch that engages the PTO. When you release the PTO this same clutch becomes a brake. That's a fully independent PTO. If you lose your main hydraulic pump on the engine, your FEL, 3PH, and PTO will not work. If you have hydraulic power and the engine is not connected to the transmission, then the PTO cannot operate even though the clutch engages. That's why the OP's tractor has no forward, reverse, or PTO. It can really only be one thing. . . .I think.

 

[DocHeb]

Here is the thread in which I described a similiar problem, and my repair was simple and did not involve splitting the tractor. It was a snap ring related to the transmission charge pump:

TC40D HST/PTO Fails

And another thread I had saved under the same problem type:

TC40D PTO/Hydro Problem

 

[gould37]

GREAT INFORMATION !!! I appreciate everyone's input. The 3pt hitch and bucket are working, so is it safe to say that the main hydrolic pump is ok? Sounds like it, correct? Does anyone have a picture of this snap ring in a tractor, and where would I look to see if it is there. If it is missing, I may not realize I am looking in the right area. Keep the info coming, I am planning on towing this into the shop this week-end for a look and see. I will keep you posted on what I find out....

 

[JC-jetro]

Go down to your closest NH dealer and drive one. But don't blame me if one follows you home. You'll have to ask your wife if you can keep it.

Yeah, the engine turns the transmission anytime it is running. Of course, with the pedals in neutral, the HST's hydraulic pump is not pumping any fluid and the the tractor doesn't move. The PTO drive goes through the transmission and an idler gear. When you want to run the PTO, you have a lever that controls a valve to divert hydraulic fluid to a hydraulic clutch that engages the PTO. When you release the PTO this same clutch becomes a brake. That's a fully independent PTO. If you lose your main hydraulic pump on the engine, your FEL, 3PH, and PTO will not work. If you have hydraulic power and the engine is not connected to the transmission, then the PTO cannot operate even though the clutch engages. That's why the OP's tractor has no forward, reverse, or PTO. It can really only be one thing. . . .I think.

Thanks Jim,

very interesting, correct me if I'm wrong, let say engine is on, transmission coupled to engine, you have cruise on and all of sudden something jumps in front of you and you push hst pedal and it is jammed you keep going forward and can not kill the power to transmission since you got no clutch. am I right?

As far as "wife Department" I'm softening her up pretty good. Two week ago was our 25th yr anniversary and I went to "Tivol", where only the pretty people go and bought her a diamond ring. She said, Oh .. it's so beautiful .. but you should not have and she promptly said " Now I feel obligated to buy you a tractor that you like". I've got a stack of tractor brochures next to my nigh stand and that's my reading material before I fall asleep.

JC,

 

[jinman]

Thanks Jim,

very interesting, correct me if I'm wrong, let say engine is on, transmission coupled to engine, you have cruise on and all of sudden something jumps in front of you and you push hst pedal and it is jammed you keep going forward and can not kill the power to transmission since you got no clutch. am I right?
JC,

Have you been watching me operate without me knowing it?

The situation is that you have three things you can do in that scenario. It takes some effort, but the cruise electromagnet will allow the pedal to slip. But if you are in a panic, you have to remember which pedal your foot is on. Pushing more on the forward pedal will not make the tractor stop. On the left side where a clutch pedal normally is, these tractors have the brake pedals. Stepping on the brake pedals disables cruise the same as in a car. Also, I just make it a habit to keep my right hand laying near the cruise switch rocker so I can flick it off in a hurry. This is not important in the middle of an open field, but when I'm driving down our county road to go to a neighbor's house, I often use cruise. But I never know who may pull out in front of me, so I keep my hand on the switch for the quickest response time. I can also tell you that it is a good idea to keep your foot resting on the HST pedal because if you disable cruise at any speed, the tractor slows so quickly you feel like you are being launched over the steering wheel. Wearing your seatbelt is highly recommended.

 

[DocHeb]

Here is the thread in which I described a similiar problem, and my repair was simple and did not involve splitting the tractor. It was a snap ring related to the transmission charge pump...

I must correct my error in this post. Looking at the manual shows that the charge pump is accessed by splitting the tractor, but I cannot identify this "snap ring". It may be accessable in some manner without splitting the tractor, but I must defer to somebody that actually knows what he is talking about (RickB - now is your time to come in here.)

 

[jinman]

Here is the thread in which I described a similiar problem, and my repair was simple and did not involve splitting the tractor. It was a snap ring related to the transmission charge pump:

Chris, I don't doubt your word, but I'd pay good money to see how they could replace that locking ring without splitting the tractor. There are no access plates on the front transmission housing and I don't think they can go into the starter/flywheel access. I am completely baffled.