TC40D no forward/reverse or pto

[jinman]

I must correct my error in this post. Looking at the manual shows that the charge pump is accessed by splitting the tractor, but I cannot identify this "snap ring". It may be accessable in some manner without splitting the tractor, but I must defer to somebody that actually knows what he is talking about (RickB - now is your time to come in here.)

Chris, I was busily going over every detail in my Repair Manual before making my last post. I didn't see this post by you. Here is my take on this. The replacement of the locking ring is something that is easy to access once the tractor is split. They probably didn't even have to fool with the operator platform, just split the tractor at the rear of the engine and replace the lock ring. That's why your tractor wasn't very long at the dealer.

In the diagram below, items #6 and #7 are the mating collar and locking ring. The lock ring holds the collar in place on the splined shaft from the engine that looks like a pilot shaft on a transmission. The input shaft "snout" of the transmission just slides into the collar. It is not locked with the lock ring, only the collar is held in place by the lock ring. Of course, I could be way out in left field, but that's my take on it after reading the disassembly and reassembly instructions about 5 times in the Repair Manual.

 

[gould37]

OK, so here is where we are at. I finally got the FEL off of the tractor and got it into the shop. The "SNAP RING" in question is missing. It is slightly accessable if you remove the drive shaft to the front end. There is a 2" x 3" access area under the drive shaft that you can look into and possible install the ring if you could flex it over the shaft. Unfortunatly, it looks like the shaft into the transmission is damaged and there is little of the splines left under where the collor should be. I think I am going to pull the motor and see if there is a way to grab onto what is left of the spline shaft in the transmission. There is probably about 1" to 1 1/2" of undamaged splines. Maybe I could get another collor and fabricated a longer one out of the two. I will keep you all posted as I go.

My only worry is that once I fix the drive, there may still be an issue with the tractor not having the correct amount of power. (When I go up an incline or try to drag with the FEL the tractor does not move.) I would like to make sure that all the issues are resolved when I am done. Any more suggestion on this issue. My fear is that I have two different "transmission" issues.

Thanks again for all of the help.

 

[DocHeb]

Again, from a person with a very limited experience of actual repair (but no shortage of opinions) is it possible that your low power state is the result of inadequate charge pump output because of the stripped/missing locking ring?

 

[JC-jetro]

Gould ,

Sorry for your misfortune. At least you could have seen proof positive of tractor ailment thru access hole/plate. I think fundamentally there is something wrong if driving device and driven device are solidly coupled to one another,. On major pumps of multi horse power we'd never consider to couple them with out some rubber coupler to act as weak link in case there is major binding in the rotor, pump impeller or what have you. I know they have done this direct coupling only on hst tranny, maybe due to pressure relief device in the transmission. Can't see at all how this can be done on gear tranny. I wondered if they have a hinged, half circle part that they can install in lieu of snap ring to keep the coupler from sliding back and forth, but again if you got spline damage ,replacement is probably the only remedy.

It'll be interesting to hear form more experienced guys reason behind this clutch less design. If I were to design it ,I'd probably would put an easily accessible and replaceable shear pin of some sort to protect the engine. I saw on the disk 4 spring to allow a bit of flexing.


JC,

 

[gould37]

I will keep you posted on repairs, but I think that lock ring-snap ring is a bad idea and is not going back into my tractor. I think I am going to use a split clamp to assure this coupler doesnt walk out on me again. I don't think that the extra ounce of wieght I am adding will make a difference in the long run. If I need to remove the coupler again, I can just loosen the clamp and move it out of the way.. I will let you all know how I make out with the repair.

THANK YOU AGAIN VERY MUCH FOR ALL OF THE INPUT......

 

[jinman]

I saw on the disk 4 spring to allow a bit of flexing.

JC, that damper is identical to the type of damper on clutch discs. It is selected and calibrated to the torque of the engine. It should never completely compress the springs. Also, this is an HST transmission. There is no such thing as "popping the clutch." By it's very nature, the transmission is a soft engagement. If you slam the HST pedal down, the transmission relief valve will lift and prevent overtorquing and overpressure. Even the pedal has a damper to prevent it from going to neutral too quickly and putting high shock loads onto the drivetrain. It stops in a hurry, but the wheels don't slide.

Gould37, it sounds like you are getting to the bottom of this and working toward a solution. You obviously have a grip of what is happening and how it can be fixed. I don't think this is a severe problem on these tractors. Chris had a problem from the factory and yours is the first tractor I've heard about with damage in this area. I'm not defending the design, just stating what I think I know about failure statistics. Good luck and let me know how I can help. I'm just a user like you and a sponge for facts related to our tractor models. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

When you had the engine rebuilt, did they split the tractor to take the crank out. If so could they have not had things lined up properly when they reassembled it and caused your problem.
Bill

 

[gould37]

Here is an update incase anyone runs into this issue. We have split the tractor, about 4hrs with a little help and hydro oil all over the floor. I will try to post some pictures when I get a chance. There is a number of things that have had a catastrofic failure here. First and fore most was the spline shaft on the transmission side of the tractor. The teeth were completely rounded off, as well as the coupler. The snap ring that I thought was missing is actually there, it is located inside of the coupler. It sits in between the two spline shafts of the inside of the coupler. I have no idea how this would come out in less than many little pieces if the coupler was still there. Second the shaft in the harmonic balance assembly has severe damage to the splines as well. They are actually twisted and very worn. I think this is a result of the balancer being damaged. The springs are very loose and I think it was shocking the shaft back and forth. Only thing I could think off. On top of all of these other issues, the pilot bearing in the motor crank is wiped out. At first I thought the big issue was going to be getting the spline shaft out of the transmission, but with a closer observation, the shaft pulls out of the trans with the pump. About a 10 min job, if the hydro lines come out easily. So there we are, I am ordering parts and will try to get some pics up soon.

THANKS AGAIN FOR EVERYONE'S HELP!!!!!

 

[gould37]

Just got some terrible news. I have been chasing parts all day for this repair to the transmission/engine coupler system. As I stated, the input shaft to the transmission was damaged. I called one of the big New Holland parts supply houses after much on line research and they told me the shaft is not a replaceable part. A new transmission must be purchased to obtain this shaft. I don't even want to tell you what the price tag on that one is. SO....does anyone have a used/junk transmission or someone capable of making me a shaft?? If not I think I might go outside the box and have to redesign this one.

Thanks for all of the input......

 

[jinman]

The price of the new transmission is $8k and that doesn't include installation. That's one heck of a hard hit to the wallet. I suspect the input shaft is a matched part to other components of the transmission and that's why it is not replaceable as a unit. Maybe you can find a good machine shop with someone who will try to repair your shaft. It's a darn shame that it is too damaged to work. How far out of the charge pump does the shaft go before the damage starts?