"Teacher" splain this

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Re: NEA scam

Franz, I understand your frustration with the superintendant situation, but he probably wasn't an NEA member and was also probably as opposed to the NEA as anyone. I don't like it when a school district says they don't have enough money and then pays someone incapable of doing their job extra just to leave either.
In Michigan, I'm not sure of other states, your wife may be able to teach under what we call an annual authorization. This is someone with professional credentials teaching in their occupational area. You have to take education classes while you teach and secure your degree, but it is designed to allow skilled people to move from the private sector to teaching.
I absolutely agree that dollars spent doesn't equal quality and the political solution to problems is to spend more money. I get the feeling you think that all the new money going to education is going to the teachers, it's not, and I apologize if I misstate your position. Teachers and teaching as a profession is not where you want to go to make a your millions. That said, you couldn't pay me enough to teach in some of the inner city environements I have been to. It is probably my rural upbringing, but the student attitude in the city was both scary and disheartening. Many teachers are frustrated as more and more experts are hired by districts to tell more and more administrators how the system should be run.
I honestly have no idea how good or bad the schools are in New York, but I can't imagine that all of the teachers are truly bad people. For your sake, not mine I know there are alot of bust [censored] teachers, go to a few schools and talk to the teachers. Better yet ask a couple to go have a drink or two, it doesn't have to be alcohol, maybe you won't agree with each other on everything, but you will probably find they aren't trying to overthrow civilization either. Maybe you will.
I am not a member of the NEA or the AFT, our district represents ourselves as a seperate bargaining unit. I do not see anything wrong with workers or districts wanting to get together to negotiate uniform pay and benefits for all employees, it seems to make more sense than a district negotiating with multiple people at different times.
One thing that also seems to be unspoken is that teachers aren't worth what theyare paid. It always seems people think they earn their money, but somehow others don't and that others don't do their job as well as they should. Yes, some teachers feel that way too. If you stand back, take a deep breath and look at the real picture, most people see that the others are honestly trying to do the best they can.
TOM

 

[patrickg]

Re: NEA scam

Will, you epitomize the guy out there trying to do good in a truly corrupt system.

I have taught at the university level, in the military, and in the USCG AUX, etc but not in public school. I have many friends who have and all agree that the quality of educaton has slipped dramatically over the years. It isn't a question of subject matter changing with the times it is BAD stuff being forced on teachers and standards slipping ever lower. Diplomas becoming attendance certificates. I Have a MS in Instructional Technology and "rubbed shoulders" with a lot of teachers in grad school. As the leader/manager of a 30 person instructional materials design and development group for the last few years of my remunerative carreer, I was in a position to know many mitary educators/teachers. I GUARANTEE you that the educatonal level of high school graduates has slipped over the last few decades as evidenced by the requirement to successively lower the level at which military training course materials are written. This is an undisputed fact, well known and documented. Yup, training materials written at the comic book level. I'm not talking just about "deck apes" but some pretty sophisticated specialties. The military may not attract equal numbers from each socioeconomic strata or academic level but they get a fair number of every type. Anyone who would argue that it just ain't so (reduction of writing level to fit lowered academic achievment of incoming students) would probably contribute to a PAC to get the law of gravity repealed.

My aunt taught highschool biology for 38 years and had a nervous breakdown due to the BS her last few years and went out on a medical/early retirement. I heard the horror stories, confirmed by others teaching in the same system. I have a "chosen" brother recently retired from teaching who could confirm much of what Franz is on about. I know a man and wife teacher pair, two friends, both retired teachers, one of which got out of teaching for his last 5 years before retirement because he couldn't put up with the insanity of teaching sciences under the ever increasing PC environment and reduced expectations for students. This fellow is a dear friend of mine even though his politics are so far to the left he makes Harv look like he's off to the right of Attila the Hun. He was sickened by the kinds of BS Franz is on about.

Franz, You were a tad strident and or "over the top" for some of the guys. Interestingly, much of what certain naive respondents had to say to you proved your case better than anything you said and they are blissfully ignorant of the fact that they confirmed your comments while they thought they were dissenting. I know of much of what you speak and with some judicial filtering of excess (I know about excess as I can generate a bit of it in a debate, myself) I can sign up for much of what you had to say.

So Franz, a sense of humor check! Were you home schooled in math but studied science in public school? (Cider press, snipe)

Patrick

 

[Phred]

Re:

Chuck,

I know this is a bit off the origional but it strikes a nerve with many of us.

I was using this one beef as a way to demonstrate the NEAs real goal; union protection of its workers. All else is BS window dressing that covers up the real agenda.

An your right einsten may have been a very bad teacher however the point is we need a revised system that focuses on what should be the goal; teaching students. Some of the Ph.D.s do actually now how to teach. Often the depth of understanding in the field that this degree promotes allows for a more complete and organized explanation of a given topic. Richard Feynman had a real gift for this.

However, clearly not everyone needs or should have a Ph.D. to teach.

I get frustrated since I see students in their first year of colleague that get hurt by calculus. The reason is that they have fallen to the expectations that are set in most high schools and the first year of colleague is a shock. Something should be done about this and the NEA is in the way rather than being part of the solution.

Also I did not mean to denegrate education course work. Clearly this has a role, escpically for lower grades.

Think about it. In the real world our country is based on perfromance. If you sell cars and you don't sell them well you go hungry. If your job is to fix tractors and the engine keeps blowing up you won't be on the job long. Our current education system has no incentives built in for schools to improve, and no penalties for lack of perfromance. This is why we have a problem. The solution is simple demand results ad those that do not meet the standard must go elsewhere. Thats the part that scares the NEA but its essential to any system that will deliver perfromance.

Maybe you would end up with alll education majors, and that would be great if it got results.

My two cents...
Sorry for the late night rant/ramblings.

Fred

 

[Phred]

Re:

Ozarker,

Your right, Being competent in the field is the minimum.

What I am advocating and why I have a beef with the NEA is that our current system does not allow for darwin to work and perfromance to shake out.
In many cases lack of perfromance is protected and the education courses and senority, etc.. are just some of the tools they use.

Don't get me wrong most teachers are competent well educated professionals that perform a vital and often thankless task. But we all know that some are not.

Fred

 

[knucklehead]

Re:

I've made a point of staying out of this, because so many were already "carrying the flag". I know teachers, good and bad, and I hope we aren't losing sight of the roughly presented but hard and awful truth in this thread.

I have one thought that has ocurred to me over and over as I read this thread. I'm stealing it from a bumper sticker that used to irk me, not so much because of the message, but because of what kind of person usually had it slapped on their car. To avoid a divergent rant, I'll let you draw your own conclusions about that.

"Think globally, Act locally"

Really quite a good piece of advice (hardly ever followed by those who advertise the idea). If we want change, we should do it locally.

Now, into the battle /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif: I have the same sharp reaction to those organizations who act and think to change our long-held and great American way of life as you, Franz. That is what is at work in the NEA. The leadership is demonstrating the same qualities as the surrender freaks and America haters across the country. Our way of life, although not perfect, has produced the best, and most potentially long lasting free society on the face of the planet. I understand most of the replies to the htread, and I also think you could "catch more flies with honey than vinegar", or change your tone a bit, Franz. But the wolf is at the door, and it almost seems that not many want to hear that, for fear of the ramifications of this threat. I'm sure there were good Nazis, too. They were just caught up in the system. I'm actually being sincere - I think there were fearful German citizens who dared not act against the govt - but that in no way justifies the existence of same. Neither does a few good members justify the existence of the NEA, the AARP, or many other powerful lobbies that are gaining power and present real threats to our way of life. Whether they contain good people as members, or have at their core the intent of doing bad, or simply have lost sight of the greater goal in pursuing foolish things like "tolerance" or "ending violence", is not the point. The point is that it would be better if we knew enough, and anticipated outcomes enough to act when the threat was small. My opinion is we're farther down the road than a small problem with public education, regardless of isolated local examples. The start of this thread was one small example of the re-education of American children as "global citizens" which is to say to teach them to ignore personal responsibility, and devalue freedom and individuality in the name of fairness, which is the new buzz word of socialism, and means to redistribute wealth without regard for individual effort. The local American population is just not being vigilant; again, stellar isolated examples excepted. We must re-assume the responsibility to educate our children.

I have ranted long an hard elsewhere on this board, and in other places, about the erosion of individual rights, personal responsibility, and freedom. There are destructive ideas that war against our founding philosophies; they have changed "masks" but are nevertheless present. We currently hear of them in terms of "fairness" and "justice"; words that are familiar and hard to debate without be cast as some kind of repressor. I refuse to even mometarily entertain the idea of fairness or justice as it applies to "understanding" of the largely Saudi terrorist attack of 09/11/2001. Or even the "repression" of the Palestinians in the face of their publicly stated goal of eradication of the Jew from their homeland (Is that new to some of you? Get off Dan Rather, and NPR!). For anyone to even tender the thought is ludicrous, yet we have an entire "teachers union" recommending this very thing to its membership. Sorry, it's hard to remain even tempered about that. Who's fault is it? Mine! Yours! We have sat passively and allowed the growth and metamorphisis of such foolish ideas in the name of civility - shame on us. Some things are just stupid; in fact, some things are just so ridiculous that only intellectuals will believe them. /w3tcompact/icons/clever.gif/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Where do we go from here? Take those things we all seem to share and cherish, the history and sacrifice of our own families, in wars and in making a life wherever we live in the U.S., and teach the underlying values solidly to our children. Teach them the difference between "wants" and "needs" - heck, we do that when that pancake flipper ad comes on TV! It's easy to start with the absurd ideas and framed arguments TV ads affer, and humorously teach our kids to think when ideas are being presented. Then we can talk about false government created problems like the "health care crisis" and the kids will see the foolishness in it. We all know how to teach - it starts by saying "follow me". So act locally - now!

 

[TimSullivan]

Re: NEA scam

Tom, just some more information on the Rochester superintendent.

The Rochester School Board has always been a strange group. They start programs then decide they can’t afford it. The schools are a mess and the community seems unwilling to do what is necessary to improve the behavior and academics of the students. There are many fine dedicated teachers but they cannot change the societal problems of the city schools alone.

Now the most interesting financial information, the City Council of Rochester determines the amount of money that will go to the schools. In non-city districts the school budget is voted on directly by the voters. Year after year the State of New York fails to have its budget in on time. Therefore school districts do not know how much money they are going to get and when. This makes it rather hard to set the tax rate and budget accordingly. This is politics as usual in the Empire State.

The superintendent did surely make mistakes but he was not the only one. If the money of the booming economy of a few years ago was still filling the tax collectors accounts then the budget problems would be millions less. There were many people asleep at the switch on this one. It took months to just figure out how much money the district was short. The financial records were a mess.

The money settlement that the superintendent received was the pay that was in his contract that was to run twenty-two more months. The agreement not to bad mouth him is interesting to me because what prospective employer in the future would not do a little research. All they would have to do is read a few of the many articles and editorials in our local fish wrapper to get an idea of the situation.

It is sad to see the Rochester City School District cut programs, teachers, support staff to the point that the education of the already troubled population is damaged even more.

 

[brewerbob]

Re:

I couldn't agree with you more, Mark. But let me add a couple of more things. You remember "New Math", or how about "open classroom concept". Kids are the most experimented on sector or society. The basics of our education seem to have been abandoned for other adjendas. Have you noticed how many people these days are poor spellers? Can you say "Phonics"? I'm retired now, but I used to deal with a lot of different lawyers. To me, lawyers are people whose profession involves an ability to write correct and comprehensive english. I was always amazed to look at some of the filings these people made with poor spelling and punctuation. An article in the Wall Street Journal last week talked about Philomath, OR where a family had been providing the financial ability to attend one of the state colleges to all graduates of the local high school. This was done through a foundation. The money was made in the logging business beginning after the depression. The local school board has gotten more and more PC, and now the foundation trustees are starting to talk about withdrawing the scholarships. Some 65% of kids in this town attend college on these scholarships.
Maybe this is a sign of things to come. There are a number of us in this country who are sick and tired of this PC business.
There's lots of blame to go around too. From the NEA which is for all practical respects an agent of the democrat party to parents who don't know and don't care what's going on with their kids.
Sorry! Kind of got up on my soap box on this one.
Bob

 

[Flint]

Re: open-mindedness

I normally just skim through all of the off-tractor posts on this site because I find the level of mouthing off before thinking or mouthing off without ever thinking to be too much. I sometimes wish Mohammad would just delete any non-tractor related posting, but I don't think that would be desirable nor would it be the best use of his time. However, being a teacher and reading some of the posts to this thread I just can't shake my head and click away as I normally would. I could probably write about this topic for days, but I'm sure most of you will be thankful that I will just jump around a bit and hit a few of the ideas that come right to mind.

Let me start by asking, how many of those who posted to this thread have read even one the lesson plans referenced by the Washington Times? How many have read all of them? (I know Chuck and possibly Ranchman have at least read some.)

Teaching a class of 30+ students, especially young students, requires a great deal of planning, thought and skill. A masterful teacher presents facts and opinions (as many as possible), moderates discussion and facilitates the learning process. He/she does not think of children as empty vessels to be filled with "the correct answers", but rather as sentient beings who can and should teach themselves. He/she believes the job is to give students the tools to learn and facilitate that learning.

Does it strike any one else as ironic that a number of people who post to this site are just as close-minded and convinced of the "rightness" (no play on words intended) of their views to the exclusion of all others as the terrorists, dictators, and zealots are?

One of the lesson plans blasted by the Washington Times and I assume one that has caused some of the posters here to go blind with hatred talks about placing blame for the attacks and being careful when dealing with this topic as a teacher. Before you jump off your comfortable seat and excoriate the authors of this lesson plan think about why a teacher (especially of young children) would want to do this. If you are having trouble seeing past your flag-wrapped head let me help you.

In my class last year I had 32 eleven and twelve year-olds. Three were born in South Korea, one in China, one in Ghana, one in Switzerland, one in Sweden, three in Mexico, one in El Salvador, one in Romania, and two in Iraq. (I know it will make some of you very happy to know that they all either spoke English and/or we're doing their best to learn it! Sorry, I couldn't resist.) One of the two children from Iraq was a girl who came here five years ago with her parents. She is raised in a very traditional Muslem way. She wears a "hijab" ( I may have spelled this wrong, but it is the scrarf which covers her head). After the attacks of 9/11 this girl missed several days of school becaue she and her sisters could not leave their home. They were pelted with rocks and called all the names you could imagine because of how they looked and because they follow (peacefully, I might add) the religion which happened to the same as the hijackers. The boy (he spells his name M-o-h-a-m-e-d) came to my classroom just two days before 9/11 and had been in the US just one week. He spoke no English. His father had been arrested in Iraq, and had been tortured, but managed to escape and for thirty some odd days he and his family travelled by night until they reached Syria. They spent several months in a refugee camp before being allowed to come to the US. The boy was beaten up at the bus stop because he was an Arab and a Muslem. The day this happened I sat with him in the office as the boy who attacked him was asked why he chose to pummel a boy half his size and two years younger than he was. As I listened to his reason (which was that the boy in my class should be sent back "where he came from") I was struck by two things. First, the older boy spoke with an accent (it doesn't matter what kind) and second, he had a large cross around his neck.

Before you criticise public schools and teachers, go visit your local school, sit in for a day or two. I say this not because I'm one of those teachers who bemoans how tough our job is or how little we get paid. In fact, I love my job, I don't even see it as work and I think I get paid too much for the amount of fun I have. I say it because I want you to see that we are not educating "your" child, we are educating a community of children. Each one is unique. Each has a different background, a different set of preconceived ideas. Each is beautiful and deserves nothing but respect. Respect for his/her ability to be given facts and opinions and the right to come to their own conclusions.

The point of many of those lesson plans is to help present a difficult, emotional subject in as unbiased a manner as possible. They are not pro-US or anti-US. To say so is to be completely ignorant of their purpose and the people whose job it is to handle complex, emotional events with a room full of children. Children who are from every possible ethnic background, religous conviction, and socio-economic group. Teaching and preaching are different professions for a reason.

No one religion, ethnic group, or country is any more peaceful or violent than any other. Any one who believes otherwise simply has a selective memory or history book.

The level of hatred for the US among many Arabs, Muslems, and for that matter other groups of people does have a reason and origin. It is NOT the reason Mr. Bush (who, for the record, I am neutral about - I neither love him nor hate him - I just think he is doing the best job he can) gives which is that they hate our freedom. This is pure rubbish! Many (not all) Arabs and Muslems hate the US government's policy of total support for the state of Israel. You may agree or disagree with the US support of Israel, that is your choice, but make no mistake that the reason the US is targeted and hated by many and the reason those hijackers did what they did is because they see the US as making possible Israel's treatment of fellow Arabs and Muslems. (Notice the word "treatment" is given without an adjective attached. You can fill in the one you think is appropriate.) The vast majority of Arabs and Muslems who disagree with the US policy are peaceful, loving people just like the vast majority of Americans. They take issue with US policies not US citizens.

It continues to amaze me that some people who are born, raised, and blessed to have lived their whole lives in the US are sometimes the least "American". Those that may have been in the US for two hours, two days or two weeks, can be the most "American". In this case I get to define "American" as being peacefully respectful of other's beliefs. Now, I suppose no one can be accused of being less than peaceful if they are just posting to a website, but some of the opinions given above seem to hint at less than peaceful solutions to perceived "problems". Perhaps, and hopefully, I'm wrong.

I'll end by pointing out the words at the top of the posting page: "be polite and respectful". I hope I have done so and I wish everyone a happy, healthy and peaceful future.

Dan

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Re: open-mindedness

Thank you Dan. A voice of reason in the wilderness is something to listen for and to.

We all resort to what we see as successful tools for handling stress. Some retire to religion and nationalism. We see it among the different countries in the in the middle east. It is scarey to see the same slogans that have caused so much heartache there being touted here.

After all Bin Laden justified his efforts to destroy our symbols of civilized society by declaring them "evil". And such terminology by our leaders levels the playing field. We get to drop down to his level.

BTW I'm also almost nuetral on Bush. I see him as a great example for recovering alcoholics. There is hope and success if they can stay dry and deal with life sober. He's accepted that the only difference between him and the drunk in the gutter is that drunk has had a drink. I think that's admirable and a message of hope. He's to be commended for his success.

It's all his buds that scare the bejeezus out of me.

 

[TerryinMD]

Re: open-mindedness

Ahhhh.... discourse.

<font color=blue>Teaching a class of 30+ students, especially young students, requires a great deal of planning, thought and skill. <font color=red>A masterful teacher presents facts and opinions (as many as possible)</font color=red>, moderates discussion and facilitates the learning process. He/she does not think of children as empty vessels to be filled with "the correct answers", but rather as sentient beings who can and should teach themselves. He/she believes the job is to give students the tools to learn and facilitate that learning.</font color=blue>

In my opinion, this paragraph sums up the problem that most people have with the NEA/teaching issues under discussion. Educators/teaches should keep their opinions to themselves. Education has taken on too many "faces". Rather than provide a solid background in reading, writing, and arithmetic, it has become the tool for educating young people in the "crisis" du jour. Pick one - environmentalism, social injustices, political correctness, etc. That is pure rubbish!! Schools are not the vehicle especially when the topics lean to one side or the other. Just like our mass media today, not many present the ideas evenly. A sad commentary on our times.

I went to Catholic grade and high schools. Very rarely did the religious teachers provide any comment on other religion, politics, or otherwise. Just straight education. In high school, we were taught a class on other religions with no bias. Just a representation of the different religions of the world for thoughtfull understanding.

I will refrain from pointing any fingers or getting into any name calling. It is senseless. What really needs to happen is that people need to get involved at the local level to press for immediate change and get involved at the state and national level for a voice. Take notice at how the liberal/progressive movements work. They start at the bottom and work their way up. Slowly and steadily!! They also elicit emotions to get peoples attention.

Enough of my ramblings....

Terry