Technology in Farm Machinery Field

JASTN70D · Dec 18, 2003

I believe in your original post the question posed is why is there not more technology used in farming. one of the answers is cost justification. This does not necessarily mean that I agree (although I do) it just happens to be a major part of the answer sought. This has nothing to do with the financial status of the farmer. It is good business sense. If you increase production through the use of technology great but if it cost more to produce than you receive you will go out of business. Although you may have some really cool toys in the shed /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Villengineer · Dec 18, 2003

( I think you are still missing my point in this thread. I see this from your words mostly connected to the cost/economy. Your words can be summarized in one sentence like this ..."... the production cost is main determining factor in which technology (high or not) will be used in farm machinery..."... Well, maybe true, maybe not. BUT why are you tend to think about the costs immediately? It's because farmers are considered as poor people and therefore, they don't deserve higher technology in the field. Think about the race cars or luxury cars. Why are high techs being used there and nobody mentioning about the costs of high tech in these fields?)
Not true. The main determining factor in what is used to produce ANY product is what the customer is willing to pay.
If farmers were willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to purchase tractors that required service by a $200/hr mechanic every month then you'd have a point. Additionally, some of the advanced materials used in high end sports cars simply are not even conducive to mass production, let alone a heavy industry such as farm equipment.
( Education system throughout the schools/universities is educating that "cost comes first", but they do NOT clearly teach that "..cost comes first only in the fields of poors/lower class fields.." So, the built-in bios/biased softwares in our minds making us think simple things more complicated and contradictory.)
Cost is ALWAYS a consideration. I've designed equipment for everyone from the mom and pop operation to equipment used in the Bellagio Casino in Las Vegas and never, not even once has cost not been an issue. Often the richer they are the MORE concerned they are with $. Plus, in all my schooling I only had one class that dealt with economics.
As much as you may not like it, $ is and will always be a factor in what comes to market and what doesn't. That's the way a free market works. It doesn't matter how "advanced" or wonderful something is b/c if there aren't buyers, it isn't going to be around long.

cowboydoc · Dec 18, 2003

It's because farmers are considered as poor people and therefore, they don't deserve higher technology in the field.

Man you are way off base here. I'm not sure where you are getting this poor people farming mentality. Have you priced a farm tractor or a new combine? A new combine is going to set you back $200-500k. A new 9000 series tractor a couple hundred grand. What are you talking about poor farm mentality? Have you even looked inside a new tractor these days? I mean what does a lexus have that a 9000 series cab doesn't have? You've got independent front suspension, triple axle suspension, shock absorbing systems, push button 4wd with limited slip, climate control, air ride seats that would put most car seats, even in a ferrari, to shame, cruise, tilt, illuminated gauges, sound deadened cabs, shock abosrbing cabs, cup holders galore, stereo systems that are better than my house, gps navigational systems, more lights than a christmas tree, etc, etc. I could go on and on with the creature comforts. I just can't see where you are coming from at all. You want to see tractors that are built like Ferraris, well there are!!! You want to look at the avg. joe's tractor well they're built like a ford or a chevy. Take your pick but the luxury car items are in the big high dollar tractors.

RobS · Dec 18, 2003

I still want to compare the technology in farm machinery to those used in the luxury car production 

Nomad, you are comparing apples and asphalt. Farm machinery is an industrial product and a luxury car is a consumer product. An industrial product will have the technology that the application warrants (and yes, there is a cost/benefit ratio to that).

A consumer product will be marketed and sold based on technology, particularly at the luxury end. Now compare a luxury car to an economy car. The economy car better represents the farm machine. It may be purchased more for the utility than the frivolity. Nowhere near the technology on an economy car as on a luxury car, right?

Another analogy... Compare a loaded Lincoln Navigator to a base Ford Expedition. Same platform yet drastically different technological features. Some difference in cost to produce and a huge difference in selling price. The markup or profit on the loaded, luxury vehicle is much more than the base model. Ford loves selling those high end vehicles yet both perform the same basic function.

When your vehicle is an investment from which you expect a return (farm machinery), you'll likely want to keep the costs as low as possible while achieving your desired functionality.

I was at a big farm show this fall. Tons of aftermarket technology available to the farmer. Just like the auto industry, as the aftermarket stuff becomes more popular the manufacturers will begin offering it in the original machine. Again though, it's largely technology based on a funtional demand, not for the "gee whiz factor" as on a luxury car /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

nomad · Dec 18, 2003

Okay. It seems again that such debates never end. See. Some says "cost is main factor" and some says "farm field isn't poor/primitive as there are farm machineries costing $500,000". So, we can have a conclusion like that "cost is a main factor for SOME farmers" ;-) Now, I think everybodys agrees with me. By the way, high tech. doesn't always mean high cost. Take CNC or laser cutting machinery being used in farm machinery production. The products with them will cost less than those produced by classical lathe or classical cutting production machineries. Another example (as I already gave above); is the turbocharger kit with improved exhaust manifold (a special Ni-alloy) With such a system of turbocharging, maybe, you will be paying $100-200 more, but you will save some fuels, at least $100-200 a month (or more? I haven't calculated this yet.) Ps: I'm not saying turbo kit is a high tech. Its material in manifold is new to farm machinery/tractor. I mentioned composite material or a kind of porous material which would help on cooling of tractor engine which usually gets high in temperature. What more examples can be given? I don't come up any right now. But there must be many examples you may give.

RobS · Dec 18, 2003

I should know better than to fuel this fire but I'll try to keep it rational...

Technology in any product is driven by application and demand. If you set aside the "gee whiz" technology in the luxury cars the base demand in the auto industry is fuel economy (lightweight, small package size), safety (crashworthiness, accident avoidance) and reliability. Of all these, only reliability would be shared in farm machinery. In fact lightweight and small package size are undesireable features in farm machinery and the safety requirements are entirely different.

In the end, there is technology in farm machinery. It likely lags the auto industry just as the technology in the auto industry lags the aerospace industry. They will always be different /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Villengineer · Dec 18, 2003

( Take CNC or laser cutting machinery being used in farm machinery production. The products with them will cost less than those produced by classical lathe or classical cutting production machineries. )
I believe that you will find this already being done where it is practical. The laser cutting, and even water cutting, not so much as it's limited in application. Plus you just contridicted your definition of technology as CNC is simply an upgrade in control of the machine (ie computers, data, etc..)
( With such a system of turbocharging, maybe, you will be paying $100-200 more, but you will save some fuels, at least $100-200 a month (or more? I haven't calculated this yet.) )
I don't believe that I've seen a $200 turbo kit. But there are lots of turbo charged diesel equipment available. I don't know what their manifolds are made of, but they're working.
( I mentioned composite material or a kind of porous material which would help on cooling of tractor engine which usually gets high in temperature. )
I don't believe anyone is mass producing any really exotic engine blocks. Aluminum is fairly common, so it doesn't meet your criteria. The ceramics and composites haven't proven durable enough to put into production. Composites have big problems with stresses in multiple axis, usually only excelling in 1 or 2 planes. Plus weight is usually their big savings and most heavy equipment builders aren't that concerned with weight.
There are better cooling system designs already in the new equipment. Better flow path design, better castings, better radiators, and better pumps. These are all the result of advancements.
Maybe it's the equipment wherever you're from b/c the equipment here in the states is right up there with what's available to other industries.

slowzuki · Dec 18, 2003

Here is an app of computer technology to safety in tractors

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/updates/autorops.html

Contact: Fred Blosser (202) 401-3749 December 11, 2003

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) is
advancing the development and commercialization of a high-tech system to
protect tractor operators from serious injury or death in a tractor
rollover, the leading cause of occupational fatalities in agriculture.
The system, called Auto-ROPS, consists of a sensor wired to a protective
metal bar or rollover protective structure (ROPS), shaped like a squared,
upside-down U and mounted behind the tractor seat. In normal circumstances,
the Auto-ROPS bar sits no higher than the operator's head. However, its arms
have the ability to telescope upward on compression springs when unlatched.
When the sensor detects that a tractor is tilting on uneven terrain in a way
likely to result in a turnover, the sensor signals the latches to release.
This release deploys the rollover bar to a level higher than the operator's
head. Instantaneously activated, the bar prevents the operator's head from
fatally striking the ground or bearing the impact of the rollover. Rollovers
account for more than 100 deaths in farming every year. Rollover fatalities
can be prevented with the use of a ROPS and a seat belt.

"ROPS are fundamental protective equipment for tractors, but the two
traditional versions - fixed ROPS and manually adjustable ROPS - both pose
complications that Auto-ROPS is designed to overcome," noted NIOSH Director
John Howard, M.D.

"For example, farmers may find fixed ROPS, which remain elevated above the
level of the operator's head, physically impossible to use in orchards and
other settings where clearance is low," Dr. Howard said. "A manually
adjustable ROPS provides some flexibility in that it can be lowered in such
settings, then raised when the tractor moves onto open ground, but the
farmer still needs to remember to raise it, and to take time to do so. The
new Auto-ROPS prototype, which NIOSH developed in close partnership with the
farming community and equipment manufacturers, represents an ingenious use
of high tech to meet those challenges."
NIOSH evaluated the prototype earlier this year in successful field tests
that compared it with traditional ROPS. The tests involved simulations in
which remotely controlled tractors without drivers were overturned in ways
that could occur in actual operations. The tests showed that the sensors
operated reliably, that the bars deployed to levels higher than those where
most operators' heads would be positioned, and that the bars met industry
standards for withstanding the impact and weight of overturns.

NIOSH also asked a group of farmers to compare the Auto-ROPS with a manually
adjustable ROPS system. The farmers said they believed that the Auto-ROPS
was more effective than the manually adjustable version, and that it
provided better protection. NIOSH and FEMCO, a McPherson, Kansas, ROPS
manufacturer, are working with tractor and power equipment manufacturers to
determine ways to bring the technology to commercial use through marketing
in the agricultural industry. Further information on the technology is
available from Tony McKenzie, Ph.D., safety research engineer, NIOSH
Division of Safety Research, at tel. (304) 285-6064 or email elm6@cdc.gov
<mailto:elm6@cdc.gov>.
Auto-Rops Testing Videos

yellowsocks93 · Dec 18, 2003

I kind of see what Nomad is getting at here. If we had stronger metals used in the frames of tractors they would have much more rigidity to the twisting forces of heavy duty field work. Then I would not have to worry about using my loader. I think in the future we will see much more advanced tractors with more and more advanced computers in them. I don't know if this will be good or bad. I grew up with computers and I am not saying they can make everything better. But if you look at cars from the 70s to now they have greatly improved. Tractors have had a lot of improvements too but not as many as cars have. John Deere is continually improving Greenstar and it will only get more advanced with time. Why stop making it better now?

Villengineer · Dec 18, 2003

Actually the strength of the steel only determines the points at which it deforms permanently and when it breaks. The rigidity or the resistance to deformation is a function of the shape of the member under stress and how the forces act on it. Both high strength steel and mild steel bend based on the modulus of elasticity which doesn't change. The higher strength steels simply don't permanently deform or fail as quickly as mild steels. The shape of the steel and where the manufacturer places it determines how rigid the tractor's structure is.