Technology in Farm Machinery Field

[AndyMA]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> To carry that extra weight around at all times, no matter how you arranged it would have been very inefficient </font>

If you had some type of device to slide the weights forward when you needed the front end to come down, then backwards when you needed more traction, that might work. Kind of like draft control except you move the weights instead of raising the implements. My guess is it has probably been tried before, because it is such an obvious thing to try. Messing with the CG on the fly might get into handling problems on slopes and any moving device is just one more thing to maintain and repair. Plus, you'd probably need some complicated linkage or computer control to operate it. The cost might outweigh the benefit, but that's what research and development are for, right? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )</font>

Not too related, but the most obvious example I can think of is the early oil delivery trucks. They did not have baffles in the tank and if they "jerked" the load somehow, usually going up a hill with a partially filled tank, all the oil rushed to the back of the tank, significiently changing the center of gravity. Between that and the pulse impact on the rear of the tank, there wre numerous cases of trucks flipping over backwards. Sometimes when the load shifted to the side on a corner, they went over sideways. This still happens with trucks when any kind of load breaks loose and shifts. I picked up too many of these when I drove a tow truck. If the COG on my tractors changes, I want to be the one to control it.

Andy

 

[nomad]

"....In our free market economy the demand for entertainment (NBA, NFL, etc and including luxury cars) has outpaced the demand for basic services and that is unfortunate...." [said by RobS]

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RobS, you touched on the heart, save your head from nails coming to your head from so-called free market supporters. I agree with you. But the real problem is in definitions defined in the education system in the world. Free market? Lol. This free market is only valid for less than 5% wealthiest minority of the whole population and those definitions defined by scholars fit only this small minority. According to supply & demand theory taught to people, the wheat price should go up very high as it's demanded by all people. And, the luxury car prices should go very low since they are demanded by only a few minority. Anyways... the theories of scholars should be read in the mirror (reverse) when the realities are considered. Therefore, farm technology which is far from this small minority (less than 5%) and which is the closest field to the reality has to stay primitive relative to the other fields in their interests of such small wealthy minority and their paid scholars.

Concerning the changing CG position; Villengineer, since you are an engineer you too know that all weights aren't carried by the tractor. If the tractor moved upward (against the gravity), then all weights including added weight would be carried. Since the tractor moves horizontally (vertical to gravity) only a portion of total weight (tractor and its attachment) is carried by the tractor. In other (in clearer) words, tractor is only overcoming friction forces and drag/resistant forces by the attachment. Okay, there is a certain relation between the total friction force and the total weight (as they are somewhat proportional), but this shouldn't be confused. Adding a 100 units of extra weight doesn't mean that all these 100 units will be carried by the tractor. Lets say only 30 units of this 100 units weight. To change the position of CG can be done in several ways. Adding some weights is only one of several methods and this is well known by the average educated people. As for how CG can be changed on a a already produced tractor (already being used by a farmer) depending on the attachment, here is my idea; I'd install a rod OR a long hydraulic cylinder between the rear and front rears. I could slide a mass on the rod OR could press the oil in the hydraulic cylinder back/forth to change the position of CG depending on the weight/lenght of attachment. Automatic adjustment is only a way of controlling method and it's not difficult to do it once you mounted the rod or hyd. cylinder. This is the simplest idea. Many idea you can come up if you think a little more.

 

[RobS]

<font color="blue"> According to supply & demand theory taught to people, the wheat price should go up very high as it's demanded by all people. And, the luxury car prices should go very low since they are demanded by only a few minority </font>

Ah, Nomad... you are only considering the demand side of the equation. Yes, huge worldwide demand for wheat but abundant supply keeps prices low (keeping to the topic... that abundance is due in part, to farm machinery technology /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ). Yes, low demand for luxury cars but also relatively low supply and that is an excellent example of a free market having difficulties. The automakers, at least the US manufacturers, have a supply problem. Excess capacity is creating too much supply. That results in price pressures to match the demand. The US manufacturers don't make much money on vehicle sales anymore because the supply/demand has gotten a bit lopsided towards the supply. They make up for it by selling other products, primarily financing. Another technological phenomenon is in place called "de-contenting". To raise profit margins in a high supply market, the cost is reduced, partly by eliminating high cost (high technology) features.

To the question of auto/self changing CG locations... A fluid system would be interesting. Tanks at various locations with fluid pumped from one to the other to change CG. A couple of potential issues: The fluid is relatively lightweight compared to the base tractor so large volumes would be necessary to see substantial changes. Also as has been mentioned, the CG location is not the only factor. Overall weight changes to the tractor are desired as well. Perhaps there could be a stationary fluid reservoir to contain ballast not wanted on the tractor at all.

It will still take a lot of fluid to match the weight of good old, low tech cast iron. There are heavy metals that occur in a fluid state but most are quite hazardous (Mercury for example).

Some large cranes use moveable ballast to counteract a lift. Might make some interesting benchmarking /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Egon]

Easiest way to get a variable center of gravity is to put the tractor on a real steep side slope. That way you can have a constant varying CG with little or no technical improvisions. Good cage and seat harness should be mandatory though.

Egon

 

[nomad]

RobS, I think I can combine these 2 topics (CG and Supply&Demand) into 1 as there is some analogy between them.

The Supply & Demand theory assumes the "balance" exists.
CG too is based on the balance approach.

But does the balance in reality really exist? I say No. We may not see/measure this unbalance easily, but we feel it (by seeing contradictions in some other fields like entertainments (NBA, NFL, luxury cars, etc.) These are changing the position of balance point, hence disproving the balance exists in human-made systems/theories including Supply&Demand theory. Don't forget there are many other factors in the systems which break the rules. One of these many factors is monopolies. There is a monopole in the wheat stock market of the world (as it's a food and being played in world politic games.) You say the wheat Supply is much more than the wheat demand, hence the wheat price (per unit of wheat) is cheap. You are wrong. Starving Africa proves this. This claim of "more supply than the demand of wheat" can be applied locally (to local regions in the world), but then this "local region" should be taken into account as an isolated region to do supply&demand calculations following that theory. But, in reality, no local region is isolated. Therefore, that theory fails again. So, the balance again doesn't exist (if we are considering human-made systems/theories/science/etc.) Once we really see the balance in the reality we can start to talk about supply&demand and its market, free market in which people learn what mistakes doing. It's same in tractor's CG change with added attachment. There is no more balance when an attachment is added. The small shift/change in the balance point (in CG of tractor or in supply&demand) will cause big errors. I see these.

 

[HayDR]

When you talk supply and demand there is less demand these days for Middlemen not connected and selling in the market place. Middlemen are parasites that feed off others works, they create nothing but higher prices. Most middlemen are lazy or they would choose to invest and become manufacturers. Some of the middlemen are smart and could make a good business but they used to being like a baby sucking on its mothers breast. Middlemen create only waste problems and have no solutions, because they are vested only in themselves.

 

[yellowsocks93]

Also car makers don't make that much money on new car anymore because you can go on the internet and pull up invoice. Used cars are where you make the money because no one knows what the dealer owns the car for.

 

[nomad]

Another result of confused education system.

Who isn't a middleman? No one.

A manufacturer? Who is a manufacturer?

Is the Manufacturer a person giving commands to the workers from his/her comfortable car/armchair? (that boss too is a kind of dealer?)

Is the Manufacturer a person spending his/her 8 hours a day by pressing onto the buttons of production pressing machine?

Or, is the Manufacturer that press machine operating for 24 hours? lol.

Or, a distributor isn't a dealer either?

Conclusion: All humans are Middlemen.
Some are confused minds, some aren't.

 

[leaddog]

I'm sure that if you would come up with the money and start buying up all the cheap wheat that would feed all the starving people in the world there would not be enough wheat and then the price would go up. That is the supply and demand thing. Just because there is people starving doesn't work into the mix because these people don't have enough money to even buy the cheap wheat. That is why we ship alot of FREE wheat to starving people all over the world. Our goverment subsidies wheat and corn to help keep the price up to help our farmers stay in business and this comes out of ALL the peoples pockets in the US. Then the gov. ships the surplus all over the world. This helps the farmer and the starving people. AND what does the gov. get but bad mouthed by other people for tring to help others. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[nomad]

Leaddog, if all farmers have agreed in what you said, then they would form a union like the workers union so that they would keep their wheats in their bin until the wheat price goes up. So, not all farmers have same opinion as you do.

So, this shows again supply&demand theory fails, in reality. The prices don't depend only on the supply & demand which is already being broken by the theoreticans themselves who are builders of this supply & demand theory.