Tell me how to create and renovate pastures

[john_bud]

10 yards? That is nothing. Wait til you buy it and spread it, then you will see that 100 yards is starting to get into real dirt. 10 yards does not go very far.
Bob

Ain't that the truth!


Z,
If you just find a spot that you don't mind being low and start digging there, you can save that few hundred bucks. Scrape off the top soil and pile it separately. Then use the bottom soil for the filling. No matter what you do, the areas around the fence are going to be paths with not much growing due to the horses running there. I wouldn't sweat it too much. It will need extra lime and fertilizer, and the horses will be adding some organic matter.

If you prep, seed and use a cultipacker in the early spring, it will firm the soil and you will be able to put the horses on in the late summer or early fall.

jb

 

[Z-Michigan]

Thanks again. I did some quick calculations and it looks like 60 yards of soil is more like what I need (160 feet long x 10 feet wide x 1 foot deep / 27 cubic feet per yard). I guess I'll price both topsoil and fill dirt costs.

I'm hoping to get some grass growing that will stand up to heavy traffic. From what I've read Kentucky Bluegrass forms a really tough sod that withstands grazing. It also grows terrific in lower Michigan. Any comments?

 

[Mike120]

Z

Don't forget about compaction after you put it down.

Mike

 

[thingy]

I wouldn't bring in soil unless I was a kennedy,,,you gotta work with what you got,,,,pasture renovations,,,maybe refence it,,temporary,,,,section it up,,,do a couple acres this coming year,,,than couple next,,be more budget wise,,and let you know what you did wrong first time,,,,disc or one of those cultivater things they sell on northern tool ,,,,not a subsurface tearer up thing,,alls you need to do is scratch the surface up good,,,to let tiny grass seed to grow... there ain't no difference getting pasture grass to grow than any other,,,but,,you gotta keep the animals off of it for a year,[or more] in order for it to take root and spread some,,,other wise you will have bare spots or just plain bare,,,section it up,,keep you animal pop. down for three -four years,,,[or longer],,,,,otherwise,,you'll just be raising dirt,,,,thingy

 

[Z-Michigan]

OK - spring is fast approaching and this is now taking on some urgency. Let me start by saying - I now have a tractor! I have a JD 5105, 4wd and FEL, this is a 50hp tractor for those not familiar with them. I have loaded rears and with FEL weight is probably around 6500lbs, just FYI in terms of my ability to pull ground-engaging implements (and on the bad side, compact soil). I currently have a rotary cutter (brushhog) and angle rear blade, but so far no other implements.

The plan is still to renovate the existing pastures and then to take the 4.5 acre weed field and turn it into 2.5 acres hay and 2.0 acres pasture. I am planning to use an alfalfa/grass mix for hay and all-grass for pasture. Over time I will also be expanding the other hayfield at its edges by pushing in forest and removing debris piles - this will probably be only 1000sf at a time.

We are still debating spraying the weedfield. It seems that I would have to wait til it greens up, then get it sprayed, then wait 2 weeks for it to die down before planting new grass. A lot of time to waste, IMHO. But then I don't know exactly how long tillage will take for it either.

I am convinced, although my wife is not, that the pasture soil is compacted and needs some kind of tillage. My wife is generally reluctant to buy implements, especially if they will only get used once (in her view), so it would be difficult for me to buy every tool that might be useful. With that said, I would like to know what the one most versatile implement I can get for all these purposes would be. I'm leaning towards the Landpride scarifier bar, but would like comments. I'd like something that can loosen dirt fairly deep, but a true subsoiler seems like a one-trick pony with limited use. A chisel plow would also seem like a good option, and seems to be pretty similar in effect to the scarifier. However, it may be easier for me to find the scarifier than a chisel plow, at least in this area! Ideally whatever I get would also be useful to prepare garden plots for veggies. Is there anything I can use for all this?

 

[Egon]

Get yourself a nice rototiller and some diamond drag harrows. Those two should cover all your jobs.

A broadcast spreader would also be nice for lime and fertilizer and seeds.

Don't get in a rush planting as you have to wait out the weed seeds deposited over the years.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Thanks. My concern about a rototiller is that my soil is chock full of rocks, and it seems like I would break the tiller or at least bend lots of tines, even with a slipclutch. Comments?

I failed to mention but I am still planning to get a chain drag harrow, just don't have it yet.

Also - wanted to edit the post but couldn't - would I get any tillage benefit from running a cultivator through the upper layers? Or would it be worth getting one of the cheaper subsoilers from KK or Howse, since they only cost around $120? I guess I really should focus on total cost of implements, not the number... if I'm willing to go with KK, I could probably get a cultivator and subsoiler for $350 or so. I just don't want to get a $600 plow plus a $1500 disk plus other stuff... only because the wife would be very unhappy!

 

[rdln]

Hows about a Michigan TBN get together project in May? Put our heads and implements of destruction together and Bang something out! Take pictures and maybe we could have a 2000 reply post just like dem dar texans.

I agree with most that say use what you have, just redistribute soil.

soil test.

mow

deep rip (a one shank subsoiler) a 5105 wont pull available deep ripper plows (minimum 4-5 shank)

moldboard plow instead of spraying. that 4 acre field sounds devoid of sod so should be easy.

Disc/till/drag/amend/cultipack whatever then seed, drink beer.

 

[bjmad]

Here are some recommendations for your pastures.

1. Soil tests. Take about 10 samples from various areas of where the pasture is going to go. Do not take samples from wet areas. The samples will be from each pasture and kept separately. You can use a ziplock bag to store the samples while you are collecting them and mark each bag from which pasture they came from. Send it in. Normally, your local feed mill can do this. Tell them what you want to plant.

2. After receiving the samples, there will be recommendations on how much lime (if any) you will need per acre and how much fertilizer.

3. New pasture. Once the weeds/grasses are about 4 inches high, spray 2 quarts of Roundup per acre. Wait a few weeks and do it again. I have a 15 gallon spayer and it does one acre. You want to kill as many weeds as possible.

4. If lime is needed, lime and till or disc it in. Do not till or disc more than 4 inches otherwise you are bringing up more dormant weeds seeds. You may also spread half the requried fertilizer and till or disc it in as well at this time. Plowing the field will bring up more dorman weed seeds and also kills the organic matter in the soil. This is why plowing is not performed on many farms anymore.

5. Using a lawn roller or cultipacker, make a firm seed bed. Spread the seed and cultipack at least twice. Firm soil will bring up moisture below the surface much, much better than a loose seed bed and the germination rate will be higher. You can also level your field before you compact and plant. Spread the remaining fertilizer.

6. Tips: You will always have some weeds. Keep them mowed before they turn to seed. Make sure the type of seeds you are planting are inocculated or buy the proper inocculation and do it yourself. Make sure the type of seeds will grow well in wet areas. Not all types of plants thrive in wet or dry conditions.

7. The best time to plant is late July or early August since this is when weeds tend to begin to go dormant. This allows your plants to establish themselves. The field will be ready as a pasture the following summer.

If you have more questions you can pm me and I'll be happy to offer advice. I have been doing this for many years. This is just a brief version and I'm sure you will have more questions.

 

[Z-Michigan]

bjmad, somehow I missed your post til now; I appreciate it!

At this point I have mowed the entire field (brushhog) and am both still choosing my implements and waiting for the soil to dry enough to work. After mowing I have found that the field has only weeds but they are very sparse. Also, we sent in soil for testing almost 3 weeks ago, but are still waiting for the results (not happy with that).

What I am currently planning to do is:
1) Till/rip the field up by using a scarifier, chisel plow or heavy duty cultivator, making 2-4 passes in that number of directions. It will be at least 1-2 weeks before soil is dry enough to do this, maybe longer.

2) Dragging the field 2-4 times with a chain harrow to level it out and firm it up for seeding.

3) Seed the field with a fast growing grass to use both as short-term hay/pasture and as a "smother crop". I'm looking especially at annual ryegrass, but I would appreciate comments and suggestions. Other possibilities would be fescue (endophyte free) and perennial ryegrass. I specifically want something that will outcompete weeds.

4) Use the field this year as hay/pasture. Spray or till individual weeds as they appear, but I'm hoping a healthy fast-growing grass will choke them out.

5) Assuming we planted annual ryegrass, mow really short in late fall and re-seed with a perennial grass that we want, possibly bromegrass. (If we planted fescue or perennial ryegrass, probably do nothing.)

Comments? What implement seems best for step 1? I am not inclined to get a moldboard plow because I do not anticipate a future use for one. (Also, I have had no luck finding a used one cheap - prices I've seen so far on used are pretty close to the $700 for a new 2-bottom one from Farm Force at TSC.) I can think of recurring uses for a scarifier, chisel plow or cultivator though.