houstonscott
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daugen
Epic Contributor
I don't think anyone thinks we are getting out of diesel any time soon.
We are just spectators in a way, as the manufacturers take some chances and and plenty of their money which they have earned huge amounts of over the last few years of a strong economy. I think at some point electric motors and even batteries(further out) will have a weight advantage, though until they find a substitute for heavy copper in windings big electric motors are certainly not light.
Wouldn't it make sense for a utility to start electrifying their trucks first? As long as a business case can be made, versus using LP for power as an alternative, as well as diesel, the utility ought to be able to "buy" its power pretty reasonably.
Cordless tool motors are up to almost 100V now. Higher voltage requires less stepping down, and my understanding is more efficient, though with handling risks. So I wonder if there will be a steadily escalating voltage used in transportation batteries, and if so, where will it end?
Will the/does the DOT regulate voltage used in vehicles?
We are just spectators in a way, as the manufacturers take some chances and and plenty of their money which they have earned huge amounts of over the last few years of a strong economy. I think at some point electric motors and even batteries(further out) will have a weight advantage, though until they find a substitute for heavy copper in windings big electric motors are certainly not light.
Wouldn't it make sense for a utility to start electrifying their trucks first? As long as a business case can be made, versus using LP for power as an alternative, as well as diesel, the utility ought to be able to "buy" its power pretty reasonably.
Cordless tool motors are up to almost 100V now. Higher voltage requires less stepping down, and my understanding is more efficient, though with handling risks. So I wonder if there will be a steadily escalating voltage used in transportation batteries, and if so, where will it end?
Will the/does the DOT regulate voltage used in vehicles?
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daugen
Epic Contributor
I'm sure he has some good points, but as a car guy HS, you likely also know FCA is way behind all the other major players in electrification and advanced safety technology. Since he has nothing good to offer, I can see Marchionne downplaying others that are eating his lunch. In other words, maybe a little marketing disinformation at play.
It's all about the green here, either money or ecology. I think we should question authority when numbers are spouted to justify positions.
If the whole premise is based on bad data, say someone didn't add up the total carbon footprint, or whatever measure you want to use, for electrical generation. Burning coal to make electricity to power transportation sure doesn't make ecological sense to me, but it sure might make financial sense. Big Coal may be dying but it's not dead yet. So much of our electricity is still generated by coal. Modern stack scrubbers have made a big difference, while I'm not sure much progress has been made with nuclear waste disposal.
I'm holding out for fusion. Hopefully in the next 20 years we'll see something that is not science fiction.
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daugen
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That's not a negative. Moving a major pollution source far from population centers is a major plus for public health; far fewer city children growing up with respiratory damage.
houstonscott
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I agree.
4570Man
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Just running a couple numbers through google it would appear electric is less efficient than diesel.
Diesel engine 45% efficiency.
Electric motor better than 90% efficient.
Nuclear power plant 33% percent efficient. And yes I know there's a lot of variables left out.
Diesel engine 45% efficiency.
Electric motor better than 90% efficient.
Nuclear power plant 33% percent efficient. And yes I know there's a lot of variables left out.
vvanders
Platinum Member
Yeah, you're missing a few things. If you want to go generation to tailpipe then you also have to factor in that refining a gallon of gas is about 6kWh, not sure for the numbers on diesel.
Also there's hydro/solar which are pretty darn cheap these days. I can get 1kWh @ $0.06 which will beat any equivalent diesel in terms of actual cost per mile.
Right now with current diesel prices($3/gal) I get the equivalent of 132 MPG and that's in addition to the fact that I don't have have the overhead of oil change every ~3k miles.
Also there's hydro/solar which are pretty darn cheap these days. I can get 1kWh @ $0.06 which will beat any equivalent diesel in terms of actual cost per mile.
Right now with current diesel prices($3/gal) I get the equivalent of 132 MPG and that's in addition to the fact that I don't have have the overhead of oil change every ~3k miles.
Snobdds
Elite Member
The grid could not handle the added load of ev's. Wind and solar don't produce a lot at night when the demand would Spike, therefore the more dirty fuels would be needed to keep producing energy.
Battery powered Ev's I don't think work yet, the range and the lack of infrastructure are prohibited. I don't see any rush by energy companies to add capacity or even modernise. Toyota is all in on hydrogen fuel cells. That makes more sense as range is back to American standards. Plus it's easier and cheaper to have the infrastructure build up for hydrogen.
Time will tell what energy source will prevail. However internal combustion will still be around in all our lifetimes.
T
Battery powered Ev's I don't think work yet, the range and the lack of infrastructure are prohibited. I don't see any rush by energy companies to add capacity or even modernise. Toyota is all in on hydrogen fuel cells. That makes more sense as range is back to American standards. Plus it's easier and cheaper to have the infrastructure build up for hydrogen.
Time will tell what energy source will prevail. However internal combustion will still be around in all our lifetimes.
T
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