Tesla semi

[4570Man]

First one hacked and kills a family all the driverless crap will be outlawed.

It'll take a lot more than one. It's not like manned trucks never crash.

 

[sd455dan]

I agreed, I've never really liked the ZEV name, I've always called them BEV(Battery Electric Vehicle).

I think the lowest impact anyone can do is to keep their car around for as long as possible. Heck, I was driving a $500 car('03 Saturn Ion w/ 145k miles, original clutch!) before the Tesla and probably would have kept it another 5-10 years if I could. I'd never own anything in the same class as the Tesla, however we do think where Tesla(and EVs in general) is where the future is so we saw the purchase as an investment in the future of the company. Musk's approach to funding the mass market cars has been to use higher priced vehicles build the next thing(just like SpaceX).

The good news about Li-Ion is it's actually not that hazardous from a chemical perspective, it just tends to catch on fire if crushed so they don't like you to throw them away. The batteries themselves are recyclable and they're already using "worn" Tesla batteries as stationary power storage before finally breaking down the packs for material recycling.

Environmental issues aside I still believe that EVs will pave the future, if only for cost reasons. The operating costs for an EVs are pretty darn cheap. For instance where I'm at my costs break down with:

$0.07/kWh @ 325W/mi = $0.023/mi
35kmi per set of tires($1k) = $0.028/mi

Similar ICE would run:
35mpg @ $3.00 = $0.086/mi
Oil change 3k @ $40 = $0.013/mi
Tires(let's call this the same for comparison sake since they can vary widely) = $0.028/mi

$0.051/mi vs $0.127/mi

Also this is on a vehicle that has 500hp+ and weighs 5k lbs. You won't find a car that makes that kind of power, gets 35mpg and runs on regular so the gap widens. If you start comparing to a S-Class for instance the number gets closer to $0.200/mi.

As battery prices fall(which they will since they're a tech and not a resource) you'll see it start making more economic sense to run an EV for the cases where it fits than a traditional car.

Or even the range extended plug ins

If many of the 1st gen Chevy Volts last like (Sparky)- we should be in good shape, his car has traveled over


405900 total miles (So far)
Over 144,700 of them on the stock battery pack

lifetime MPGe 48.4


When the battery pack does start seeing more degradation there is little doubt it will either be recycled or used in a home grid tied Solar/inverter set up or since these used LI packs seem to sell pretty quick on ebay.

Considering all the recent auto maker announcements on switching to more hybrid/electric vehicle design production by 2022 it is very likely our future- especially if one of the new fast charge higher energy density, and safer battery tech goes into mass production.

ps. about a nickel a mile for the tesla? That is impressive for Any car that has the level of performance

 

[daugen]

I've been surprised how long these battery packs last. Priii have been on the road a long time and I have not read one complaint online about folks saying they got
inadequate life on their batteries. I'm sure there have been issues, but that car is hugely successful because it has lasted and done what it set out to do. And is still selling well, despite new Toyota styling that really leaves me cold.

Cost per mile and ROI will drive this, pun intended. Ecological issues from a trucking standpoint are probably way down in the list of priorities.

Anyone who has not driven in a car with adaptive cruise is missing out. Not only does it save energy and cramps in the right leg, but it actually makes you a safer driver by almost eliminating tailgating. I have always seen distance as the issue in accidents, not enough distance. So many drivers tailgate horribly, even some big trucks do which shows the driver is not a pro.
Big trucks have had adaptive cruise for some time now, but for sure not "self driving." Adaptive cruise is the first step in radar controlled driving. Second and third steps are out there, auto accident avoidance, auto braking, etc. 102 people die each day in car accidents in the US. 102 people is a huge number, almost 35,000 lives lost every year. If that many people were mowed down by guns, or anything, there would be a huge outcry. But we seem to accept risk and death as part of driving. Volvo and other car companies think we can do a lot better. As a guy who has helped haul dead kids out of cars with the fire company, and many of those 102 people are day are kids, I'm really big on safety. And that means not relying on automated systems that aren't fully tested. All of us driving these cars now are guinea pigs in a way, how else do you prove new tech? On a Cadillac with Super Cruise, the steering wheel changes colors at the top from red to green. Maybe, but being an early adopter here in my opinion brings some risk with it. Not like just trying out a new dvd player...

I wonder how those GM hybrid trucks and SUV's are doing? They sure didn't sell well.
The Tesla semi appears to be a plug in, pure EV, but i would think they would want a small gen there somewhere, perhaps a "range extender" for extra miles.

I get all the car magazines and when I saw the article on the Tesla, thought it would be a fun way to talk about new trucks. And maybe 1000hp motors
in really big trucks. (what kind of torque and hp can a Pete 379 really take?)

We all need to change with the times and as we get older, and older, that gets harder to do.
Life is no longer a Blue Flame Six and three on a tree.
But then I look at some modern infotainment systems and just groan at how stupidly complex they are and distracting to use.
Not all progress seems smart. I think we all get that.
And it would be naive to think politics has nothing to do with this; Fed funding/loan guarantees is a huge prize for these companies and funding approval is for sure politically controlled.

 

[daugen]

It'll take a lot more than one. It's not like manned trucks never crash.

They crash all the time... though HS's comment about hacking is right on, big issue with vehicles even now. My Ram has been reflashed twice for security reasons.
And if the wrong famous white family dies in the crash, say the Buffett family..., I see red lights ahead too. But those lights will turn green
when the tech is better tested. Anyone who has written code knows there's a lot of what seems to be Beta software out there, getting proven mile by mile.

 

[Redneck in training]

Ironically Komatsu is working on a joint venture for a dump truck that generates electricity(Meet the E-dumper, the world's largest electric vehicle). However it's from hauling rock downhill so it doesn't violate any conservation of energy laws. Goes up empty and then generates electricity during braking on the downhill.

On the maintenance front there's not really a ton to do on a Tesla(or any EV for that matter). There's one at 50k for swapping the coolant in the pack, but aside from that the other ones are just inspections. I did have Tesla do it since I was pretty busy at the time. They've got a little long of a wait but nothing unbearable.

Aside from the coolant and tires there's pretty much nothing for maintenance on the car. You only use the brakes at < 5mph so for all purposes they aren't a wear item. If you have cheap electricity like we do in WA($0.07/kWh) then the running costs are a fraction of similar car.

Komatsu makes backhoe that generates electric power when the boom is going down.

 

[Redneck in training]

Electric cars are only thing that could save coal. The amount of energy generated by coal burning plants are hard to control when the load or lack of it changes suddenly. They are too slow to react. On the other hand batteries can sink or supply energy instantly. Coupled with proper software electric cars should be able to stabilize the power grid by absorbing the excess and supplying the deficit. I had a job recently at a power station in NE. The plant gets penalized for energy production nobody wants at given moment. Then there is wind and solar. Night load is also decreasing due to conversion from incadestcent to LED.

 

[Egon]

I'm sure people said the same thing about automobiles, but they replaced the horse anyway.

There could be a person walking ahead of the auto drive vehicle and waving a flag to alert the auto vehicle drivers.

Change is inevitable and ongoing. The "Status Quo" is only a short term interval in the course of change.

 

[Dadnatron]

They crash all the time... though HS's comment about hacking is right on, big issue with vehicles even now. My Ram has been reflashed twice for security reasons.
And if the wrong famous white family dies in the crash, say the Buffett family..., I see red lights ahead too. But those lights will turn green
when the tech is better tested. Anyone who has written code knows there's a lot of what seems to be Beta software out there, getting proven mile by mile.

I disagree. If the overall rate of auto accidents and deaths decrease, we will see an outcry, however, the population at large will still want them. They will simply want them 'fixed and require .gov to do so'. They won't want to go back to driving with all the inherent risks associated with it. Think about it... no drunk driving... just drunk riding. No falling asleep at the wheel. No texting, phone calls, putting on makeup, etc.

It would make people nervous... until it didn't. People thought cars would kill the world when they came into being. Early automobiles were required to have a person with a red lantern 100yds in front of the car to warn horse drawn carts. Now, you can't ride a horse down our roads for the most part. Times change... people's views change. This WILL come to pass and WILL improve our capability and mobility.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

The "Status Quo" is only a short term interval in the course of change.

Well said.

 

[houstonscott]

Electric cars are only thing that could save coal. The amount of energy generated by coal burning plants are hard to control when the load or lack of it changes suddenly. They are too slow to react. On the other hand batteries can sink or supply energy instantly. Coupled with proper software electric cars should be able to stabilize the power grid by absorbing the excess and supplying the deficit. I had a job recently at a power station in NE. The plant gets penalized for energy production nobody wants at given moment. Then there is wind and solar. Night load is also decreasing due to conversion from incadestcent to LED.

You make my point, as time moves forward so does change. The perceived over whelming need to switch to electric has dried up. The idea that oil will not be around anytime soon has totally melted away as literally thousands of years of known supplies exist. While a very specific need to reduce emissions in very highly populated areas might still exist, forcing all people into vehicles that fit that need isn't necessary for everyone or wanted everywhere. Most of the posts paint the future change to electric everything, stuck in a time (global warming scare) that has also changed and is quickly disappearing.

 

[Dadnatron]

Houstonscott...

I don't know that the future will be electric because of an 'oil scare'. I think it will be electric because it works better... when the tech is capable. I agree with you that it won't be next week nor that it will be all supplied by wind, sun, and unicorn farts. But I do believe that the inherent capability of electricity to perform more and more of our energy needs will continue to remove other forms of energy consumption from our daily lives. No one uses whale oil for lighting any more. But at the time, it was the BEST available.

I don't like 'mandates'... I simply think it will be the better choice when people choose to make it. People don't build water wheel saws because the tech isn't as beneficial. But at the time... it was the ONLY way to really get something done. That will be the same with electricity until some future source of energy/power/motility occurs in which electricity will take a back seat and then simply be a historical footnote. Similar to coal/diesel/NG in the next century.

 

[houstonscott]

Houstonscott... I don't know that the future will be electric because of an 'oil scare'. I think it will be electric because it works better... when the tech is capable. I agree with you that it won't be next week nor that it will be all supplied by wind, sun, and unicorn farts. But I do believe that the inherent capability of electricity to perform more and more of our energy needs will continue to remove other forms of energy consumption from our daily lives. I don't like 'mandates'... I simply think it will be the better choice when people choose to make it. People don't build water wheel saws because the tech isn't as beneficial. But at the time... it was the ONLY way to really get something done. That will be the same with electricity until some future source of energy/power/motility occurs in which electricity will take a back seat and then simply be a historical footnote. Similar to coal/diesel/NG in the next century.

Until there is a overwhelming need, and it doesn't look like there is one, no change will be made. Don't discard those technology break throughs will also continue in ICE development. We already have an spectacular transportation system with powerful safe fast clean comfortable luxurious beautiful and affordable cars. Not seeing that electric works better. I'm a car guy, I simply don't see it. The historical reflection might be remember when we thought pure electric cars were the answer, how stupid we were... Hybrids might remain, they fulfill many needs without altering the whole transportation system. They allow those people interested to fulfill nearly all the perceived electric need without any sacrifice. The MB C350e is the result of real technology and real hybrid experience gained in modern Formula 1 racing developing these systems. They have created what Tesla hasn't even conceived. A vehicle that knows where the designated low emission areas are and throughs GPS knows where it is, altering how Hybrid system works for road and even elevation changes. They've left Tesla in the rearview mirror. They also are making their own LI batteries and make home storage systems you can actually get your hands on, MB is not just an Internet Site.


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[daugen]

Tesla’s Semi truck looks fast in first leaked video – BGR

I find the acceleration speculation amusing because the trailer was likely empty.
I wonder how many drive wheels this thing has.

 

[houstonscott]

Tesla’s Semi truck looks fast in first leaked video – BGR I find the acceleration speculation amusing because the trailer was likely empty. I wonder how many drive wheels this thing has.

It's been on the road since 2014. Pull yourself from the Tesla pit.

 

[California]

Just a note on comparing truck horsepower: diesel or electric horsepower needs will be similar at constant speed or on grades.

But the electric motor's peak torque from zero rpm is a real advantage getting a heavy truck started moving.

I wonder if also, avoiding the many shifts to get up to highway speed with constant torque applied is a productivity improver.

 

[CincyFlyer]

It could. It should.

I see no sign of that happening. When was the last time we built a nuke plant? And how long did the permitting process take for that one?

Well, now would be the time, wouldn't it?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

When all vehicles are self aware and aware of all other vehicles it should improve the safety for all.

 

[KubotainNH]

I find the EV or possible Hybrid semi intriguing. When you think a 15l Detroit diesel weighs over 2800 pounds with 1800lbs of torque, what could you do with electric motors? Have one on each tire for great traction in all weather conditions and maybe change the frame characteristics seeing the torque is put down in a different way, maybe even the trailer could have drive motors? The center of gravity could be way lower so maybe aerodynamics could be way better? Make it so all the wheels could steer more tightly for ease of moving around in tight spaces(thinking way outside the box)? Adding solar panels on the trailer may not give a huge amount of power but maybe enough to keep the cab air-conditioned when the driver is resting or run a fridge trailer. Regen braking would slow the truck way more quieter than a jake-brake and you could have it on the trailer too. Interesting things to think about but I think there would have to be some huge benefits to get out of the diesel cycle.

 

[California]

My daughter works in utilities planning and rate-setting. She says the big issue of the moment is that rates are based on replacing generating plants as they age but new technology - LED's and some customers shifting to their own solar power, or even selling back to the utility - has made it uncertain that a specific plant would need to be upgraded or replaced as soon as had been planned, so present and projected rates may be higher than needed. It's a matter of intense discussion in her specialty at this time.

And my own thoughts - recharging EV's overnight will tend to level load so plants can run at better efficiency 24/7. And some speculation: EV's could be designed to feed back into the grid - there are already smart meters to take care of the accounting - which could make possible a voluntary program to further level peak load.

 

[houstonscott]

When all vehicles are self aware and aware of all other vehicles it should improve the safety for all.

Thats already happening.