Tesla semi

[17 Oaks]

IMO when it comes to electric cars TELSA GETS IT! And on big trucks the concept sounds great, not sure if it meets the makes good sense test till they can sort out some things. But someone needs wade into the water and Telsa cold be the best bet. As for the driverless...well not really and unless things change (and they MAY someday) the big rigs will still have a driver sitting in that seat. If for no other reason than the liability exposure without a driver just won't won't work anytime soon.

I am solidly behind the commercial use of electric vehicles but for personal use, not so much. Why NOT? As we drive full bore into our world of "SMART" TV's, HVAC systems in your home, washing machines etc etc they all do a lot of neat things. But behind that is a very dark cloud. Specifically...that 100% EV you drive has all the data of where where you go, how long you stay, when and where. Your HVAC system at home, yea you like it warm in the winter so you set it at 80F or you like it cool in the summer so you set it at 72F. Now some faceless bureaucrat sitting in DC gets and alert, you have changed the temp outside the govt mandated high/low parameters and you drove this month more than your allocated mileage...so he begins flipping switches and your EV won't start and you house just got cold when it should have been warm. Do we have this ability, YES!!! The govt will never do that: Yea you are right, we never did have a FED mandated 55 mph speed limit adn the govt has never mandated high and low temps!

A truck company's dream would be a private citizens nightmare...

 

[flusher]

Battery chargers: that's what differentiates Tesla from all the rest. Now Tesla operates 5400 Superchargers globally and will nearly double that number to 10,000 by the end of 2017. In addition, Tesla operates about 9000 Destination Chargers at restaurants, hotels and other locations that are similar to at-home chargers. Tesla's competitors are lagging far behind in charger installations and will need to make large investments in charger networks in order to compete with Tesla.

 

[Snobdds]

Battery chargers: that's what differentiates Tesla from all the rest. Now Tesla operates 5400 Superchargers globally and will nearly double that number to 10,000 by the end of 2017. In addition, Tesla operates about 9000 Destination Chargers at restaurants, hotels and other locations that are similar to at-home chargers. Tesla's competitors are lagging far behind in charger installations and will need to make large investments in charger networks in order to compete with Tesla.

So does Tesla have a Tesla specific smart charging system that requires a branded Tesla battery charger? I think that would only go further away from the ability to have a wide ranging charging system from the grid. That means we would have to have Tesla chargers next to GM chargers, next to Nissan chargers. That won't help things along.

 

[Snobdds]

Never mind I found the answer. A Chevy volt can not use a Tesla supercharger. The computer systems that regulate charge rates and capacities don't work well with each other. I see this a as a huge hindrance to the EV future.

Chevy Bolt EV mis-advertising access to Tesla Supercharger and CHAdeMO stations it can’t use | Electrek

Toyota is on the correct path with using a non branded commodity of hydrogen, at a central location, to refill a tank on the vehicle that doesn't require a unique charging methodology.

 

[wagne223]

I think what I'm most sceptical about is the battery technology. I simply have not been satisfied with rechargeable battery life.

My personal experience is with cell phone, laptop, power tools, and golf cars.

Granted these all have different types of batteries. I'm just pointing out my experience.

Daily use cordless drills are the worst.
Can't seem to get batteries to last more then a year.

Golf car is a pain, constant issues with connections, and switches, and battery charging and maintenance just sucks.

I'm enjoying the discussion, lots of good info.
I'm sure there are a lot of people with experience like mine and we just can't imagine having that same scenario in a car or truck.

As tech improves and time passes enough to show the masses that batteries no longer give the experience I described, I think more people will open up to the change.

One thing is certain, nothing ever stays the same.

 

[/pine]

...That means we would have to have Tesla chargers next to GM chargers, next to Nissan chargers. That won't help things along.

I'm sure the technology already exists that would allow electronic shunt type fixtures that would adapt from one brand to another...

Golf car is a pain, constant issues with connections, and switches, and battery charging and maintenance just sucks.

Aside from general maintenance my elec. golf cart has been as dependable as my diesel tractor

 

[Snobdds]

I'm sure the technology already exists that would allow electronic shunt type fixtures that would adapt from one brand to another...



Aside from general maintenance my elec. golf cart has been as dependable as my diesel tractor

From the comments on the article I linked...

'How, in 2016, could US government's vast subsidies allow the development of incompatible car chargers to take place? The DOE should mandate Tesla, Chargepoint, CHAdeMO and any other chargers to be 100% inter-operable with all electric cars. Every gas pump fits into every car on the road, hence zero consumer confusion. How can electric car developers have shot themselves in the foot so badly?"

 

[rd_macgregor]

If Toyota starts to see success with a (future) rollout of hydrogen-fueled vehicles, others will jump on board. I can foresee that different manufacturers will adopt different fueling coupler types....

 

[CincyFlyer]

Electric vehicles don't cut the pollution, they simply move the pollution around.

As a blanket statement, that would be false. It may be true in particular.

 

[flusher]

You can see the problem the GMC has with lack of chargers for its Bolt in this recent article:

Fast-charging a 217 Chevrolet Bolt EV electric car

The article contains this information:

"General Motors, however, has said flatly that it has no intention of putting any money toward national DC fast charging infrastructure."

If this is actually what GMC thinks now and for the future, it looks like its Bolt will be at a real disadvantage for long range, cross-country travel. How this plays out will depend on how well Tesla handles its "manufacturing ****" phase of the Model 3 production startup and how fast the affordable BEV becomes a reality.

 

[Snobdds]

As a blanket statement, that would be false. It may be true in particular.

lol...ok

That's like saying the sky is blue, however it's not true in Seattle because it's cloudy.

 

[crazyal]

Toyota is all in on hydrogen fuel cells. That makes more sense as range is back to American standards. Plus it's easier and cheaper to have the infrastructure build up for hydrogen.

doesn't hydrogen have some performance downside like less energy output?
I have seen the hydrogen Toyota cars in magazines but I think they are kept in California and a few test areas.
Why do you see hydrogen as better? Certainly refilling would be easier/faster than waiting for a supercharger.
Can current service stations add hydrogen without ripping up the whole place?

Toyota has a hydrogen semi truck with equal power to a diesel semi. The one I read about only has 200 miles of range but adding more tanks isn't really an issue with hydrogen. What I can see is the long hauling done with a hydrogen or hybrid hydrogen semi and depots not too far from interstates. Filling the tank(s) would take minutes keeping drivers on the road making money. It would be easy to have hydrogen filling stations at truck stops on the interstates and major truck routes. Once at a depot the load would get split down so it can go different directions. Form there a EV truck could do the work since it would be short hauling.

 

[crazyal]

Nobody said that the winner will be just one solution.
Toyota’s fuel-cell big rigs are ready to haul cargo

 

[4570Man]

Toyota has a hydrogen semi truck with equal power to a diesel semi. The one I read about only has 200 miles of range but adding more tanks isn't really an issue with hydrogen. What I can see is the long hauling done with a hydrogen or hybrid hydrogen semi and depots not too far from interstates. Filling the tank(s) would take minutes keeping drivers on the road making money. It would be easy to have hydrogen filling stations at truck stops on the interstates and major truck routes. Once at a depot the load would get split down so it can go different directions. Form there a EV truck could do the work since it would be short hauling.

Splitting up loads isn't efficient. If it was railroads would be the king of the shipping industry.

 

[houstonscott]

IMO when it comes to electric cars TELSA GETS IT! And on big trucks the concept sounds great, not sure if it meets the makes good sense test till they can sort out some things. But someone needs wade into the water and Telsa cold be the best bet. As for the driverless...well not really and unless things change (and they MAY someday) the big rigs will still have a driver sitting in that seat. If for no other reason than the liability exposure without a driver just won't won't work anytime soon. I am solidly behind the commercial use of electric vehicles but for personal use, not so much. Why NOT? As we drive full bore into our world of "SMART" TV's, HVAC systems in your home, washing machines etc etc they all do a lot of neat things. But behind that is a very dark cloud. Specifically...that 100% EV you drive has all the data of where where you go, how long you stay, when and where. Your HVAC system at home, yea you like it warm in the winter so you set it at 80F or you like it cool in the summer so you set it at 72F. Now some faceless bureaucrat sitting in DC gets and alert, you have changed the temp outside the govt mandated high/low parameters and you drove this month more than your allocated mileage...so he begins flipping switches and your EV won't start and you house just got cold when it should have been warm. Do we have this ability, YES!!! The govt will never do that: Yea you are right, we never did have a FED mandated 55 mph speed limit adn the govt has never mandated high and low temps! A truck company's dream would be a private citizens nightmare...

. Huh.

 

[houstonscott]

If Toyota starts to see success with a (future) rollout of hydrogen-fueled vehicles, others will jump on board. I can foresee that different manufacturers will adopt different fueling coupler types....

BMW already made them.

 

[dragoneggs]

lol...ok

That's like saying the sky is blue, however it's not true in Seattle because it's cloudy.

hey,hey,hey... not all the time!

 

[crazyal]

Splitting up loads isn't efficient. If it was railroads would be the king of the shipping industry.

That's how most freight is moved. Everything that can get loaded onto a trailer going to the same general location is sent to a depot. That depot then splits up the load and uses short haul trucks to get it to it's final destination. FedEx and UPS have it down to a science. Even companies like WalMart have depots across the country where they ship product to before loading it onto a truck going to a specific location. Railroads make a lot of money off of the next best thing, a truck bringing a trailer to a train depot, loading the trailer onto a flat bed, shipping a long distance for much cheaper that a semi could then offloading the trailer to have it hauled to it's final location by a tractor. If I ordered 500lb pump on a pallet from a distributor in California there's zero chance that it would get loaded onto a trailer and hauled to be all by itself directly to me.

 

[Snobdds]

That's how most freight is moved. Everything that can get loaded onto a trailer going to the same general location is sent to a depot. That depot then splits up the load and uses short haul trucks to get it to it's final destination. FedEx and UPS have it down to a science. Even companies like WalMart have depots across the country where they ship product to before loading it onto a truck going to a specific location. Railroads make a lot of money off of the next best thing, a truck bringing a trailer to a train depot, loading the trailer onto a flat bed, shipping a long distance for much cheaper that a semi could then offloading the trailer to have it hauled to it's final location by a tractor. If I ordered 500lb pump on a pallet from a distributor in California there's zero chance that it would get loaded onto a trailer and hauled to be all by itself directly to me.

I concur...

 

[KubotainNH]

Also there's hydro/solar which are pretty darn cheap these days. I can get 1kWh @ $0.06 which will beat any equivalent diesel in terms of actual cost per mile.

Here electricity is twice that price but diesel is $2.60 a gallon, drive a couple miles and you can have it for $2.40 a gallon. So many variables including the original price of the car and having to run heat in the winter. My newest car is an 07 that cost me 2k, just not feasible for me to spend 60k when I drive a used car for 10 years. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of electric with things like instant heat and quiet movement but my Honda's are pretty quiet too.